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Thread: Well Ruck Me.

  1. #1
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    Well Ruck Me.

    I think a few of us have been wondering when we would top up with a ruck or two. This year the balance is not too bad, provided Will stays fit, although I'm not a fan of Boyd or Redpath in the ruck. its not a retrospective thread.

    Watching Hawthorn right now they've taken a ruckman from all tiers (top level, mid and prospective type) and all from other clubs. McEvoy a big trade, Hale the mid level sort at North (behind Macintosh & Golstein) and Ceglar cut by Collingwood. And all are showing good signs as rucks and second forwards.

    Gets me thinking that as our game style is moving towards what Hawthorn are doing, that perhaps we might want to pursue a ruckman or two at years end. Even more so if Campbell & Cordy haven't played good game time. Seems having too many rucks is a good problem, and tall genuine forwards play as tall genuine forwards and not also as pretend ruckmen.

    Hawthorn today have Ceglar & McEvoy, plus Gunston & Roughy as forwards. Would we lose too much run if we added in another ruckman who rests forward? Is Minson's great workhorse strength also a team limitation as he can't rest forward with any success? I'd love to hear Bevo's thoughts as he theory about players playing in multiple roles is working for a few guys and the team. I'd guess he'd like two rucks, but I also guess it would slow us down over the course of a game. Hopefully Cordy & Campbell are watching today and realising if you play your best footy, lots of talls can play in a side.
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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Just for convo sake, Kruezer, Luenberger and Bellchambers are free agents.
    Sam Power: Great Sage, Equal Of Heaven

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    If you play more than one ruck, they need to be useful in other positions. Cordy & Campbell need to show more as forwards to get a game, particularly as Minson isn't much chop anywhere else
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Good thread BT, I was watching parts of the game and asking the same question. To me if we were to play Cordy then we can't play Redpath as a forward.
    I think the difference with the Hawks set-up is that McEvoy is a reasonable forward and for that matter so is Hale when he is fit. If Minson could be more productive up forward then we could play 2 ruckman but that is unlikely.

    We probably need a versatile tall like Blicavs who could be paired with any of our ruckman.

    Could Cordy and Minson work for a large part of the season?
    "Lets put the mouthguards in and get to work"

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    BT the one thing all the hawks ruckman have in common is they are more mobile than your average ruckman. McEvoy looks to have slimmed down a lot compared to last season. And the year before that Roughead slimmed down as well.

    Are Campbell, Minson and Cordy mobile enough to allow us to have them play forward 100% of the time? I dont think so.
    #BeMoreBulldog

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    If we accept that the FF and CHF (Tom Boyd & Redders at this time) have to more often than not maintain positions forward of the ball, a FP/resting ruckman must not only provide a marking target and not get in the way of the FF but must also be capable of applying defensive pressure, including following and positioning behind the ball when it is well upfield. From the NAB Cup match against Collingwood, Ayce looks the most likely to be capable of playing this role (I assume Minnow would be rested on the bench when Ayce takes his turn in the ruck) and I think Bevo could experiment with this over the course of the season. But it won't work if the effect is to add a player to the forward line that hasn't the capability to play the defensive side of the modern forward's game.
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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Good thread BT, I was watching parts of the game and asking the same question. To me if we were to play Cordy then we can't play Redpath as a forward.
    I think the difference with the Hawks set-up is that McEvoy is a reasonable forward and for that matter so is Hale when he is fit. If Minson could be more productive up forward then we could play 2 ruckman but that is unlikely.

    We probably need a versatile tall like Blicavs who could be paired with any of our ruckman.

    Could Cordy and Minson work for a large part of the season?
    That's a good question. I was not brave enough to post in the MC thread about Redpath as the kudos was about presenting and not marking or goaling. Cordy can present and take a tall defender too? I think so, which also means Boyd isn't forced to ruck. That I like too. I'm not for dropping Redders per se, but he is quite one dimensional and I think if he is shut down he will get subbed off most games that happens. Minson can present, compete and not take marks. He's a good set shot too.

    I hope Cordy keeps his form going and we can trial it. We've not drafted a ruckman since Roughead and we turned him into a full back. Could we use a high pick this year or take a FA ruckman at the expense of a defender or mid? I think we need to focus on it.

    I think the complexity is Minno's strenthes are matched by his positional limitations. But seeing if a second ruck through Cordy works gives us an idea of how hard to go. The success or not may help us work out how hard to go post season at either a big trade, free agent, delistee or draft. But the Hawks are resurrecting the ruckman and I'd love to keep pace with them in this respect.
    Sam Power: Great Sage, Equal Of Heaven

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    BT the one thing all the hawks ruckman have in common is they are more mobile than your average ruckman. McEvoy looks to have slimmed down a lot compared to last season. And the year before that Roughead slimmed down as well.

    Are Campbell, Minson and Cordy mobile enough to allow us to have them play forward 100% of the time? I dont think so.

    I think Cordy could. Campbell has been injured and Minno... No.

    So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?
    Sam Power: Great Sage, Equal Of Heaven

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I think Cordy could. Campbell has been injured and Minno... No.

    So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?
    We have no choice but to change our ruck dynamics as you suggested.

    However that would mean minson and Campbell can no longer be apart of our plans moving forward.
    #BeMoreBulldog

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    So what do we do with a coach demanding flexibility and three rucks who would be inflexible?
    Like the rest of our list, they will have to learn
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by boydogs View Post
    Like the rest of our list, they will have to learn
    Minno can't. Great ruckman, very poor forward. Perhaps Campbell & Cordy can. But we would need to trade Minno to allow them to grow, and then use the salary to grab a FA ruckman. I think there would be a lot of dissent. But is that worth going through?

    As Aza says, we might have some questions...
    Sam Power: Great Sage, Equal Of Heaven

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Minno can't. Great ruckman, very poor forward.
    Reckon I am still the only member of the "Minno wasn't the worst forward in the world in 2008'' bandwagon

    At least my Schulz and Spangher bandwagons have filled up nicely in recent years

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    Reckon I am still the only member of the "Minno wasn't the worst forward in the world in 2008'' bandwagon

    At least my Schulz and Spangher bandwagons have filled up nicely in recent years
    I'm with you. Minson was a serviceable forward in 08/09
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    The other missing point is: forwardline pressure. If we are to play a dedicated second ruck/forward they must be able to apply sufficient pressure. It looks set to become a hallmark of our gameplan.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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    Re: Well Ruck Me.

    I would give Redpath a decent run in the forward line for the next few weeks. If it's not working
    Cordy gets a shot as forward / 2nd Ruck. Look to draft a more mobile ruck/forward prospect at end of the year
    as an alternative to Minson in future years.
    "I have a feeling in my piss" - James Cuming.

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