Well Ruck Me.

[Rocco Jones]

Roughy is such a tough one. Truly a jack of all trades, master of none at the moment.

As a ruck- he is great around the ground, filling a hole, taking contested marks and applying pressure but he is simply not good enough in ruck contests and struggles with durability.

As a forward/2nd ruck pinch hitting forward- can take a contested mark but his kicking for goal is very poor. He also doesn't have great forward smarts.

As a full time defender- once again love his contested mark ability but IMO he gets lost when playing as a true defender rather than a ruck just dropping back. His defence awareness can be very poor.


So basically I think he is at his best when floating around the ground as a ruck but simply not good enough in the most important area of rucking,.

[Stefcep]

Roughy is such a tough one. Truly a jack of all trades, master of none at the moment.

As a ruck- he is great around the ground, filling a hole, taking contested marks and applying pressure but he is simply not good enough in ruck contests and struggles with durability.

As a forward/2nd ruck pinch hitting forward- can take a contested mark but his kicking for goal is very poor. He also doesn't have great forward smarts.

As a full time defender- once again love his contested mark ability but IMO he gets lost when playing as a true defender rather than a ruck just dropping back. His defence awareness can be very poor.


So basically I think he is at his best when floating around the ground as a ruck but simply not good enough in the most important area of rucking,.

Can he get better?

[Rocco Jones]

Can he get better?

I love his attitude and commitment to the team but maybe I am the wrong person to ask as I've never really rated him as a player. I feel harsh/bad saying it as once again really like the guy.

I think his best role is ruck/defence combo a bit like Jackson Trengove played the year Port were contenders. I just don't know if it is good for the team to have a defender who is distracted by ruck duties.

[bornadog]

So Campbell to be first Ruck as he can presumably put in the required minutes. Roughead as utility? Do we get Vardy as speculation and/or backup (though you'd probably want more reliable backup)

Vardy injured again last week in the VFL - no thanks

[Ghost Dog]

I thought we were smashed in the ruck.. Roughy just doesn't have the strength or durability to play the first ruck role we require ( ruck at least 75% game time). Can't remember a player who is in the hands of the trainers as much as Roughy is.

Boyd needs to be a pinch hit in the ruck and not spend more than 5-7min a qtr in the role... That's not the case at the minute.

Not sure we had too many options there. Maybe Minno might have done better, but Roughy did more at ground level than Minno might have done. I didn't think we were all that bad ( someone is about to drag a stat out here ) because we provided enough of a contest, our mids managed to contest, until Libba and Jack went off.

[bulldogtragic]

So next year we have Roughy, Campbell & Boyd as the tallest players on the list. I can't see Minson being around. Camhead was a thing of beauty until Campbell went down. Boyd is showing competence all over the ground. I'm still of the view I'd like him to spend more time forward than this year. A contested marking beast (not you Liam) who can kick goals at better than 70% accuracy is a very rare commodity.

Is that really enough ruck depth? I tend to think not having lost our back up (Minson) and developing kid (Goetz). So the question is draft a likely sort, rookie draft a developing kid, trade for a ready made or look for a state leaguer for depth???

[boydogs]

So the question is draft a likely sort, rookie draft a developing kid, trade for a ready made or look for a state leaguer for depth???

I would expect us to replace both Minson (ready to go backup) & Goetz (developing)

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting presser with Bevo tonight. He was asked about the no Third Man Up Rule will result in recruiting more ruckman. His response in summation is that list managers may advocate this strategy initally, but that some coaches thinking outside the square may go the other way and eliminate pure ruckman from their strategy/selection/game plan. He cited tonight being beaten by Grundy, but beating them on the turnover game and outside play. A strategy he suggested might actually be playing a bigger mid and training the mids to read the opposition taps better, and using the extra mid to provide more run. He joked he could play Toyd & Cloke as pure forwards as soon as next week without a ruck. His answers were quite deep in thinking, so much so I don't think it was off the cuff. He's an interesting thinker.

[bornadog]

Interesting presser with Bevo tonight. He was asked about the no Third Man Up Rule will result in recruiting more ruckman. His response in summation is that list managers may advocate this strategy initally, but that some coaches thinking outside the square may go the other way and eliminate pure ruckman from their strategy/selection/game plan. He cited tonight being beaten by Grundy, but beating them on the turnover game and outside play. A strategy he suggested might actually be playing a bigger mid and training the mids to read the opposition taps better, and using the extra mid to provide more run. He joked he could play Toyd & Cloke as pure forwards as soon as next week without a ruck. His answers were quite deep in thinking, so much so I don't think it was off the cuff. He's an interesting thinker.

Well a few of us have said before Bevo doesn't rate ruckman in the traditional sense.

[GVGjr]

Well a few of us have said before Bevo doesn't rate ruckman in the traditional sense.

And yet we have chased athletic ruckman like Stefan Martin and a more traditional type like Matthew Lobbe hard. We've also had some interest in under performing Tom Nichols. I'd be confident in saying Roughead would have rucked last night if fit.

I'm not sure saying he doesn't rate ruckman is correct.

[bulldogtragic]

And yet we have chased athletic ruckman like Stefan Martin and a more traditional type like Matthew Lobbe hard. We've also had some interest in under performing Tom Nichols. I'd be confident in saying Roughead would have rucked last night if fit.

I'm not sure saying he doesn't rate ruckman is correct.

Yep, for clarification, the answers from Bevo were about the no Third Man Up rule impacting us generally and if that will lead to teams, including us chasing pure ruckman. Bevo was saying list managers might think like that initially, but that the opposite could actually happen that coaches thinking outside the square might play a bigger midfielder and sacrifice the hit outs. And use the extra midfielder in a revolutionary new gameplan to ensure they win on the outside, run and carry and turnovers and teach inside mids to read the opposition rucks more. It was a philosophical answer to a hypothetical question, but the way he answered it showed to me that he had put thought into the concept. With a kid like English who plays like a tall midfielder, maybe if on form he gets in as a midfielder who tries to break even a little earlier.

I just think it's a really interesting take on the rule change, and how Bevo goes about thinking about the game generally and how he covers all angles of a facet of the game quiet conceptually. More so interesting if Bevo goes down this track and if JMac wants to add a tradional ruck.

Personally, I'd love to eventually see a ruck in all three areas of the ground. Boyd rucks forward, Roughie/English play as tall utilities/mids in the centre of the ground and the long bail out option and say recruiting a Trengove to ruck in the back with the ability to rotate as necessary. Change away from the notion of a ruckman or ruckmen, but talls who can cover the ruck contest and then immediately switch to a more positive role for the team. It's not really an area of the game that's had a huge change, compared to other aspects of different roles.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm much happier with a genuine no.1 ruckman and Tom Boyd predominantly forward, and then the secondary ruckman. I didn't think he really impacted last week's game, but he seemed to break even in the ruck tonight and had hurt factor forward with a huge specks and a couple of goals, could've easily had another one or two as well. I think Roughy is the obvious no.1 ruckman, but since he's not around until around the bye round, I think tonight showed this is the best structure and hopefully Campbell will be better for the run.

[Ozza]

I'm much happier with a genuine no.1 ruckman and Tom Boyd predominantly forward, and then the secondary ruckman. I didn't think he really impacted last week's game, but he seemed to break even in the ruck tonight and had hurt factor forward with a huge specks and a couple of goals, could've easily had another one or two as well. I think Roughy is the obvious no.1 ruckman, but since he's not around until around the bye round, I think tonight showed this is the best structure and hopefully Campbell will be better for the run.

I definitely agree on the ruck side of things.
On the forwards front - they probably need a fair bit more time to gel together. Apart from a 5 minute purple patch for Tom Boyd - he and Crameri were otherwise largely ineffective.
We might not find the absolute right balance until half way through the season realistically - but as long as we keep winning, then all is good.

[comrade]

Can't wait until English is ready. He is the ideal prototype for Bevo.

[jeemak]

I'm much happier with a genuine no.1 ruckman and Tom Boyd predominantly forward, and then the secondary ruckman. I didn't think he really impacted last week's game, but he seemed to break even in the ruck tonight and had hurt factor forward with a huge specks and a couple of goals, could've easily had another one or two as well. I think Roughy is the obvious no.1 ruckman, but since he's not around until around the bye round, I think tonight showed this is the best structure and hopefully Campbell will be better for the run.

Plus the Boyd screamer. You don't take those babies when *!*!*!*!ed from too much ruck work and not actually being in the forward line.