Well Ruck Me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bevo was talking about Stef, and said the concern was not whether he could compete in the stoppages but whether he could 'play his role in the turnover game' - I imagine that the criticism of Sweet is not whether he can ruck, but whether he can stick to his role outside of the stoppages.

I suppose English normally gets to the right spots, but he typically has very little impact once he’s there. Must frustrate the hell out of the coaches.

[G-Mo77]

I know this is flogging a dead horse but I was looking at the stats between Martin and Sweet this year and there's not a lot of difference.

Martin v Sweet 2021 averages

7 Games 5
3.1 Kicks 4.2
6.9 Handballs 4.4
10.0 Disposals 8.6
1.1 Marks 2.4
0.1 Goals 0.2
0 Behinds 0.4
1.6 Tackles 3.8
17.6 Hitouts 19.8
0.4 Inside 50s 1.8
0.3 Goal Assists 0.2
0.9 Frees For 1.6
1.9 Frees Against 2.0
7.0 Contested Possessions 4.4
3.1 Uncontested Possessions 4.6
7.1 Effective Disposals 6.2
71% Disposal Efficiency % 72.1%
3.1 Clangers 3.2
0.4 Contested Marks 0.2
0 Marks Inside 50 0.4
2.9 Clearances 2.4
0 Rebound 50s 0.4
2.0 One Percenters 3.4
0 Bounces 0
71.1 Time On Ground % 75.6
1.4 Centre Clearances 0.8
1.4 Stoppage Clearances 1.6
3.9 Score Involvements 3.6
34.6 Metres Gained 144.6
0.9 Turnovers 2.0
1.9 Intercepts 1.2
0.6 Tackles Inside 50 0.6

Now I know stats aren't everything but why didn't we give Sweet the time the same as English who we all admit is an ordinary ruck man at this stage of his career and may never be the number one ruck option. I get English was a high draft pick and offers more around the ground but how was his early years that we stuck with even though he was getting smashed.

When Martin went down we should have bit the bullet with Sweet and kept a structure that was winning.

The VFL has been on and off all season and its a loss of development we get into Sweet who plays a position we are in desperate need for. Martin could have been down on the boundary as Jordan's personnel ruck coach guiding him through the games.
Also if we go back to one of the last VFL games it was Sweet who was getting slaughtered in the ruck moved forward and kicked 3 goals to get us back into a winning position and was also much improved in the ruck after the stint forward.

What I'm basically saying is how much would we have lost by having Sweet cover Martin as it's nearly like for like.

Wonderful post HD and an excellent question to close it off. We had nothing to lose playing him IMO, not only we get to blood a ruckman which we desperately need it also leaves us with an option if/when Martin isn't available.

Now our hands are tied, it's Martin or bust.

[Sedat]

Plenty of discussion around Martin v Sweet, with makeshift Young thrown in, but we're all burying the lead. We drafted a 207cm 19yo ruckman 5 years ago in the expectation that he will be tearing it up as a 24yo just as we are building for another tilt at a premiership. It is damning that English is (quite rightly) not even being seriously discussed as #1 ruck option this week, such is his complete lack of aggression, strength, craft and nous in the position.

And it's not as though we haven't given him ample opportunity to make the #1 ruck position his own. His lack of development is hurting us big time at the moment, and we better have a plan for how best to deploy him this week and in 2022 and beyond because it sure isn't going to be as #1 ruck.

[Grantysghost]

Plenty of discussion around Martin v Sweet, with makeshift Young thrown in, but we're all burying the lead. We drafted a 207cm 19yo ruckman 5 years ago in the expectation that he will be tearing it up as a 24yo just as we are building for another tilt at a premiership. It is damning that English is (quite rightly) not even being seriously discussed as #1 ruck option this week, such is his complete lack of aggression, strength, craft and nous in the position.

And it's not as though we haven't given him ample opportunity to make the #1 ruck position his own. His lack of development is hurting us big time at the moment, and we better have a plan for how best to deploy him this week and in 2022 and beyond because it sure isn't going to be as #1 ruck.

A fair point, we are kind of missing the obvious.

I feel Bevo has been expressing some of his exasperation at this exact scenario of late; the public talking to on the bench then some comments in the press conference made his frustrations pretty clear.

English looks like a nice kid and he's an amazing athlete. He just needs to work on his competitiveness. Not sure you can teach it.

That concussion certainly took the wind out of his sails.

[jeemak]

You picked this a while out Sedat, and while it was easier to be negative based on his body of work I really did think he'd turn the corner.

Now I can't see it happening for him as a number one ruck. He's going to be a great second ruck/ forward, but chances of him actually making it in the role he was selected seem to be getting slimmer and slimmer.

[bornadog]

You picked this a while out Sedat, and while it was easier to be negative based on his body of work I really did think he'd turn the corner.

Now I can't see it happening for him as a number one ruck. He's going to be a great second ruck/ forward, but chances of him actually making it in the role he was selected seem to be getting slimmer and slimmer.

He is still a good player and still best 22, however, as Sedat says we need to do something about a number one for next year. Martin was a gamble, but he is also a mentor for our rucks, but he is not long term.

[Mofra]

You picked this a while out Sedat, and while it was easier to be negative based on his body of work I really did think he'd turn the corner.

Now I can't see it happening for him as a number one ruck. He's going to be a great second ruck/ forward, but chances of him actually making it in the role he was selected seem to be getting slimmer and slimmer.

Is that so bad? Arguably a forward/ruck who is actually good is harder to find than a modestly capable no 1 ruck.

[jeemak]

Is that so bad? Arguably a forward/ruck who is actually good is harder to find than a modestly capable no 1 ruck.

I don't disagree with you. I think previously I've called it the hardest position to recruit for.

[Ghost Dog]

A fair point, we are kind of missing the obvious.

I feel Bevo has been expressing some of his exasperation at this exact scenario of late; the public talking to on the bench then some comments in the press conference made his frustrations pretty clear.

English looks like a nice kid and he's an amazing athlete. He just needs to work on his competitiveness. Not sure you can teach it.

That concussion certainly took the wind out of his sails.

What was the talking to on the bench bit? With Timmy?

[Mofra]

I don't disagree with you. I think previously I've called it the hardest position to recruit for.

With Timmy there it does give us the flexibility to consider a ruck who isn't much of a threat forward (a la Stef).
The little I've seen of Max Lynch suggests he wouldn't worry defenders too much. I doubt opposition coaches would be concerned about Ceglar forward either, and he seems to have been mentioned a few times.

Interesting question. Let's suppose our first few options have dried up and we are stuck with a choice between Ceglar and Mason Cox - who do you prefer?

[azabob]

With Timmy there it does give us the flexibility to consider a ruck who isn't much of a threat forward (a la Stef).
The little I've seen of Max Lynch suggests he wouldn't worry defenders too much. I doubt opposition coaches would be concerned about Ceglar forward either, and he seems to have been mentioned a few times.

Interesting question. Let's suppose our first few options have dried up and we are stuck with a choice between Ceglar and Mason Cox - who do you prefer?

Id go Ceglar as he has shown he can hold his own as a first ruck. Unsure if Cox can or not as he hasn't really had that opportunity to.

I think Ladhams, Lynch, McLean are too similar to English and we'd be doubly depressed if we brought one of these players to the club.

You have been a big advocate for Max Lynch - out of the players you have listed who is your preference? Still Lynch?

[azabob]

Would Ben Hudson get a game in Luke Beveridge team?

He is probably our best ruckman since Scott Wynd / Luke Darcy.

[comrade]

Would Ben Hudson get a game in Luke Beveridge team?

He is probably our best ruckman since Scott Wynd / Luke Darcy.

I think so, Stef is in the Hudson mold. I fricken loved Huddo, would be awesome in this 2021 side but I’m a sucker for big, physical beef ruckmen

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Interesting question. Let's suppose our first few options have dried up and we are stuck with a choice between Ceglar and Mason Cox - who do you prefer?

Cox.

Ceglar is almost too short v Gawn / Naitanui etc and he doesn't have a spring. Probably costs more than Cox too.

[bornadog]

Cox.

Ceglar is almost too short v Gawn / Naitanui etc and he doesn't have a spring. Probably costs more than Cox too.

Yeah, i would go Cox as well. Ceglar has never impressed me, and Cox is due to his height.