Well Ruck Me.

[Bulldog Joe]

Stats don’t lie

There is an old quote from Benjamin D'Israeli

"There are lies, there are damned lies and there are statistics."


Statistics generally are misleading and need a logical interpretation. Anyone relying solely on stats are happy to be deluded.

[Bulldog Joe]

Tim was leading the hit outs to advantage in the first half.
Actually I think he had 7 which is more than either oppo ruckman got solely (I get they shared their time).
Fact is : Tim was not being beaten in the ruck.

That is the stats, but Tim was comprehensively beaten for a period in quarter 2 by Darcy Fort.

I actually liked Tim's game and thought he was a big part of the win. Maybe he needed a spell, but I thought he was below par at half time, regardless of the stats.

[jeemak]

Stats are only useful to the person using them to make a point. To everyone else they're irrelevant and we should just accept that.

[Grantysghost]

Stats are only useful to the person using them to make a point. To everyone else they're irrelevant and we should just accept that.

They also say you're most likely to murdered by someone you know on Christmas day.

So... You know...

That.

[JanLorMill]

I thought English was excellent in round one. Gawn was better...but he is rarely beaten.

We lost by 50 points, Gawn played a major part in that. He was in career form coming into the 21GF and he was nullified, and we were in front until the other ruck got us.

I know what I prefer.

[JanLorMill]

Stats don?t lie

They do in the coaches votes.

[JanLorMill]

That's all Tim's fault I know. Certain Tim got the better of Marshall on the night. I might be wrong.

Imo Tim would be almost leading our B&F at the moment.

Certainly going ok in the WOOF players awards as well so we're clearly all on board. Scored heavily this week as well and will go outright with Bont when Bulldog Joe collates the votes.

Tim shaded Marshall in stats, but Marshall far more influential the result. We lost by 50 remember.

[JanLorMill]

The b&f also doesn't include opposition players or opposition coaches votes, so we really have no idea who our coaches thought played well in round 1 (no Bulldogs) or round 2 (Bont got 4, which could have been as low as one vote).

It's not crazy to say Bont would be leading the b&f. It's also not crazy to say that Tim is leading the b&f.

Yes Bont got 5 by both coaches this week and vs saints I believe both coaches gave him votes as well. If Tim polls more votes in either of those games from our other coaches, something is wrong.

[jazzadogs]

We lost by 50 points, Gawn played a major part in that. He was in career form coming into the 21GF and he was nullified, and we were in front until the other ruck got us.

I know what I prefer.

Whether he's coming first or second, the point remains that he has had an excellent start to the season.

I felt that a lot of Gawns influence was when he was either playing a kick behind the play (which barely any team would man up, as they would have their own ruck a kick behind the play) or forward (not against Tim). Their midfield of Petracca and Oliver, as well as their general pressure and our appalling turnovers, cost us that game.

English has comfortably been in our top 5 players each week this season.

[1eyedog]

Tim shaded Marshall in stats, but Marshall far more influential the result. We lost by 50 remember.

How is that Tim's fault then? This is what I mean even when he beats his man he is still blamed for the result.

Anyway most of us are onboard he seems to be doing OK in the Woof player awards as an outright leader with Bont.

[Sedat]

How is that Tim's fault then? This is what I mean even when he beats his man he is still blamed for the result.

Anyway most of us are onboard he seems to be doing OK in the Woof player awards as an outright leader with Bont.

I haven't seen enough of our games this year but Tim's problem wes never with the lumbering clydesdale ruckman (which Fort could be categorised as). He has eaten these types for breakfast in the past. His problem has been with the great stoppage ruckmen - he has regularly fallen well short of the mark against these types and it has been very costly for us over the last few years in critical games (H&A and finals).

I maintain that if Tim (with better secondary support from Lobb) can unlock the secret to nullifying (and heaven forbid, even beating) the best stoppage ruckmen in the game, we are in this season and future seasons up to our eyeballs - that's how important his continued improvement at stoppage is to our premiership chances, and we absolutely need a return on 4+ years of significant investment so far if we are to contend in the next few years. I hope he continues to turn this corner - massive test this week against Nank.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I haven't seen enough of our games this year but Tim's problem wes never with the lumbering clydesdale ruckman (which Fort could be categorised as). He has eaten these types for breakfast in the past. His problem has been with the great stoppage ruckmen - he has regularly fallen well short of the mark against these types and it has been very costly for us over the last few years in critical games (H&A and finals).

I maintain that if Tim (with better secondary support from Lobb) can unlock the secret to nullifying (and heaven forbid, even beating) the best stoppage ruckmen in the game, we are in this season and future seasons up to our eyeballs - that's how important his continued improvement at stoppage is to our premiership chances, and we absolutely need a return on 4+ years of significant investment so far if we are to contend in the next few years. I hope he continues to turn this corner - massive test this week against Nank.

Right there with you.

I've been on the super critical train of English, but I do think he has had a good start to the year. His job has been made all the more difficult by our midfield group being completely outplayed in the first two weeks, but he had moments in both games where he wrestled momentum our way. He was very good again vs Brisbane - nobody expects him to dominate every minute/quarter given he isn't playing against incapable opposition week to week - there was a period in the second quarter where he was getting beaten, but he turned it around in the second half which was pivotal.

As you mentioned, another good test v Nank.

[Happy Days]

I haven't seen enough of our games this year but Tim's problem wes never with the lumbering clydesdale ruckman (which Fort could be categorised as). He has eaten these types for breakfast in the past. His problem has been with the great stoppage ruckmen - he has regularly fallen well short of the mark against these types and it has been very costly for us over the last few years in critical games (H&A and finals).

I maintain that if Tim (with better secondary support from Lobb) can unlock the secret to nullifying (and heaven forbid, even beating) the best stoppage ruckmen in the game, we are in this season and future seasons up to our eyeballs - that's how important his continued improvement at stoppage is to our premiership chances, and we absolutely need a return on 4+ years of significant investment so far if we are to contend in the next few years. I hope he continues to turn this corner - massive test this week against Nank.

Spot on. Nank is the exact sort of ruck that Timmy has been food for previously (50m goals on the run notwithstanding). If he continues his form this week then we can maybe finally start to believe in him full time.

[Stevo]

Does anyone know if any of the Footscray listed boys are genuine rucks?
I hate seeing Khamis doing ruck work when he played junior football as half back flanker and somehow at the senior level he is being asked to back up English or Sweet.

[JanLorMill]

How is that Tim's fault then? This is what I mean even when he beats his man he is still blamed for the result.

Anyway most of us are onboard he seems to be doing OK in the Woof player awards as an outright leader with Bont.

Simple it’s our ruck vs their ruck. He didn’t beat Gawn and he just shaded Marshall in stats but Marshall was more influential as both coached agreed. I agree he has good individual start but in the first 2 games it meant little.
I not saying it’s all Tim’s fault anyway but if the opposition ruck dominates, who is he dominating?