Following our exes...................

[bornadog]

Jones can stick to all the principals he wants but at the end of the day anti vax is selfish, and effects not only himself but the people around him, family and friends. The hospitals are at breaking point with the number of cases. There are so many people with covid who should be in hospital but are hospitalised at home. They go to hospital and beg to be vaccinated when it is too late.

If it was Easton Wood, well I would feel the same. I don't care who it is - just get bloody vaccinated.

[Sedat]

Jones can stick to all the principals he wants but at the end of the day anti vax is selfish, and effects not only himself but the people around him, family and friends. The hospitals are at breaking point with the number of cases. There are so many people with covid who should be in hospital but are hospitalised at home. They go to hospital and beg to be vaccinate when it is too late.

State and federal govts have had almost 2 years to get their act together and build up hospital capacity (as they all promised they would). They have all failed miserably, which is probably the least surprising thing about the last 18 months.

Maybe the heavily obese shouldn't have access to medical care, seeing as they disproportionately utilise a higher percentage of available hospital resources? Same with smokers and drinkers and drug addicts? I am being facetious of course, but it is a dangerous and very slippery slope segregating one section of the community from the rest of society. You don't need to look too far back in history to know this has utterly devastating and disastrous consequences.

[GVGjr]

I'm glad all our front line workers haven't collectively taken the same stance.
I guess it's nice to laud an outlier for their personal beliefs because it has minimal effect on the functioning of society.

If paramedics, doctors, nurses et al started having similar ideas en masse I wonder if our philosophical acceptance of him sticking to his guns would change.

A lot of people have sacrificed we know that for sure.

I havent decided what I think about Jones' decision at this stage.

But it's his and that's cool.

From a bigger social perspective it's certainly a selfish me first position and it's also a a position in the minority of society but he isn't in the front line workers field rather a playing field that would cut him the moment he has served his purpose.

It's hard to judge him properly until we understand why he has come to that decision but he is giving up a lot of money and a substantial level of freedom granted to the vast majority of us so on face value he is 'chips in'.
I tend to think he will regret it but it is his decision to make. At least he doesn't appear to be one of the protesters.

[hujsh]

Imagine if Easton Wood retired with a year to run on his contract for the exact same reasons. Would our collective admiration of Easton change?

Yes. I'd probably think he's at least a bit of a dickhead. Whether it was anti-science or to oppose the mandate.

[hujsh]

Maybe the heavily obese shouldn't have access to medical care, seeing as they disproportionately utilise a higher percentage of available hospital resources? Same with smokers and drinkers and drug addicts? I am being facetious of course, but it is a dangerous and very slippery slope segregating one section of the community from the rest of society. You don't need to look too far back in history to know this has utterly devastating and disastrous consequences.

It's not. One to combat a contagious disease causing a pandemic. The others are essentially social issues.

I don't know exactly which group/s in history you're trying to compare to the unvaccinated but I have a feeling knowing will only annoy me more.

[josie]

Read most of the posts including some on social media from dogs fans who are lauding Liam’s bravery to make such a decision. I do not normally comment on non direct football posts but I feel compelled to for this so here goes……

Elective surgeries some becoming urgent, cessation of breast screening and other flow on health impacts mean not getting jabbed goes way beyond being admitted into ICU or not. It’s the combined impact on the community and health system that’s the challenge and no amount of increasing hospital ICU or having at the ready or opening new wards for new covid cases could wave these compounding negative outcomes away. Didn’t I read somewhere we have or were importing health professionals from other countries at likely great cost to the public purse too? Also if left to spread there will likely be more mutations for which current vaccines may not be as effective. We are already looking at boosters and vaccines for under 12yo. I did not enjoy lockdowns but I’d rather what we went through thus far compared to say the US. And I’m ok, albeit not happy, if we have to again go into limited lockdown for some other strain or pandemic knowing scientists and health professionals will be doing their best to respond asap.

What no-one is talking about now (a little bit of press in 2020) is how a reduction in R&D post SARS and swine and bird flu a decade or so ago meant we in Australia and the rest of the western world were slower to respond with vaccines than likely would have been the case. That’s news worthy.

You could partially counter need to be vaccinated by saying thousands of lives have been saved with reduced influenza deaths but that’s simply a by product of improved hygiene and social distancing (basis: science not religion). But watch how flu deaths increase next winter. I’ll be queued up for flu jab that’s for sure as I place my “faith” in sound logic and evidence based outcomes.

My opinion based upon science: I have no respect for Liam’s decision, agree with some posters it is selfish (albeit likely I’ll-informed and not intentionally so). Margaret Atwell wrote (may not be word verbatim) “If judged by their effect, stupidity is the same as evil”. Rather apt.

As for proposed pandemic emergency legislation isn’t it great we live in a democracy where, whatever your political views are, you can read the proposed changes in detail, lobby your local MP and other MPs, and legally, passionately rally (now we are close to 90% vaxxed) if you disagree (noted that some wore a mask - bravo to those folk).

[comrade]

I’m not going to wade in and jump on this grenade but basically Sedat is right like usual.

[Grantysghost]

State and federal govts have had almost 2 years to get their act together and build up hospital capacity (as they all promised they would). They have all failed miserably, which is probably the least surprising thing about the last 18 months.

Maybe the heavily obese shouldn't have access to medical care, seeing as they disproportionately utilise a higher percentage of available hospital resources? Same with smokers and drinkers and drug addicts? I am being facetious of course, but it is a dangerous and very slippery slope segregating one section of the community from the rest of society. You don't need to look too far back in history to know this has utterly devastating and disastrous consequences.

You're not using segregation of African Americans or SA Apartheid as an example are you ? Not sure they're are comparable.

I too share some concern re privacy and what this opens up, but I have faith there's enough oversight to ensure we can reign it in.

RE Government bashing. I've worked in the Federal Goverment for over 20 years and my wife is currently developing the Rapid Antigen Testing policy for a state Gov dept and she is working 12 hour + days every day (inc. weekends).

I work closely with those involved in Covid work and they are all at the point of exhaustion.

Blanket generalisations (like constant Gov bashing) just come off as to me as poor arguments, maybe outlining a better system would be interesting to me. Politicians, yeah ok I get that but that's not the whole picture.

The biggest problem with Government (from experience) is the multitude of departments and the silos that exist between them.

It's like turning the Queen Mary to get things to happen, but I can tell you the people on the ground are working their arses off and believe very strongly in the service they provide to the public.

[Sedat]

It's not. One to combat a contagious disease causing a pandemic. The others are essentially social issues.

The contagious disease has had multiple vaccines available for several months that everybody who wants one has had access to and gotten. Why does anybody who has been jabbed even care about those who haven't? We are all protected. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I'm not interested in vilifying those who are not jabbed because that is precisely what mediocre politicians (with help from the media) want society to do, to find a target other than themselves that people can direct their rage at when the inevitable house of cards on this pandemic falls over. Politicians have caused the destruction of society through their appalling and failed policy interventions that have been unprecedented in our history. They have failed on almost every metric to find a balanced solution to the problem that factors in all other unintended societal and health consequences They have successfully normalised the concept that our most basic of freedoms are now conditional - this is something I will never be supportive of, and I will never be drawn into the cynical narrative of blaming a random, ever-shrinking group for their own personal decisions when it is 100% the responsibility of our elected leaders.

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

[Sedat]

You're not using segregation of African Americans or SA Apartheid as an example are you ? Not sure they're are comparable.

I too share some concern re privacy and what this opens up, but I have faith there's enough oversight to ensure we can reign it in.

RE Government bashing. I've worked in the Federal Goverment for over 20 years and my wife is currently developing the Rapid Antigen Testing policy for a state Gov dept and she is working 12 hour + days every day (inc. weekends).

I work closely with those involved in Covid work and they are all at the point of exhaustion.

Blanket generalisations (like constant Gov bashing) just come off as to me as poor arguments, maybe outlining a better system would be interesting to me. Politicians, yeah ok I get that but that's not the whole picture.

The biggest problem with Government (from experience) is the multitude of departments and the silos that exist between them.

It's like turning the Queen Mary to get things to happen, but I can tell you the people on the ground are working their arses off and believe very strongly in the service they provide to the public.

I will never direct my anger at the people on the ground. They are amazing.

The bolded bit neatly encapsulates everything wrong with our ruling class, and this pandemic has opened up these problems for all of us to see - the ruling class hate that they have been exposed for their inefficiency, largesse, lack of leadership/accountability and basic competence, so they need to frame a narrative that some other random (tiny) group of people are to blame. Leadership comes from the very top, and our notional leaders without exception have failed us all miserably from the very start of this pandemic. The political system in Australia has proven to be flawed - and true to form instead of fixing what is broken, our leaders will use the fear and uncertainty they amplified to spread even more hate and division between ourselves. It is the oldest trick in the political playbook.

[Grantysghost]

Not everyone who doesn't get the jab is anti vaxx either some people just fall into a group which the scientists call "can't get organised" for whatever reason.

Had a great story relayed to me regarding some Fellas from up in the Mallee area. Our department sent a team up there to vax people and this included a couple of sheep shearers.

They were true Aussie rural types and just said something like ah mate it never came here and we are working all the bloody time so didn't get it.

Then happily rolled up their sleeves and thanked the team and got on with their work!

Classic.

[The Pie Man]

This thread’s become pretty strange.

Freedom? We’ve been free to do as we’re told for our entire life.

If your lifestyle doesn’t impact negatively on others I couldn’t care less what you do, fill your boots, it’s none of my business. Unvaccinated people are a potential transmission point for a deadly contagious virus so …you know, just do the easy right thing.

Last time I checked, I needed a licence to drive. I’m pretty happy knowing other drivers are also licensed. Makes the road a safer place no?

Specifically for Liam, imagine making that choice when Docherty is going through cancer treatment…far out, what a….

[hujsh]

The contagious disease has had multiple vaccines available for several months that everybody who wants one has had access to and gotten. Why does anybody who has been jabbed even care about those who haven't? We are all protected. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I'm not interested in vilifying those who are not jabbed because that is precisely what mediocre politicians (with help from the media) want society to do, to find a target other than themselves that people can direct their rage at when the inevitable house of cards on this pandemic falls over. Politicians have caused the destruction of society through their appalling and failed policy interventions that have been unprecedented in our history. They have failed on almost every metric to find a balanced solution to the problem that factors in all other unintended societal and health consequences They have successfully normalised the concept that our most basic of freedoms are now conditional - this is something I will never be supportive of, and I will never be drawn into the cynical narrative of blaming a random, ever-shrinking group for their own personal decisions when it is 100% the responsibility of our elected leaders.

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

In a sense, I don't. I don't care if you want to put your own livelihood and health at risk. I will probably think less highly of you for it (general you not you specifically) but I doubt anyone who hasn't got vaccinated actually cares what I think of them.

I do care that it continues to allow the virus to spread more easily, for cases to get higher, for hospitals and doctors and testers and tracers to get more strained and for more mutations to potentially develop. Surely that's obvious though so I'm not even sure why you asked.

Though TBH it seems like it hasn't really been an issue here the same way it has in the US so if anything I'm more worried about people there and other countries with lower rates not getting vaccinated than people here.

Jones I don't really care about either way but the 'respect' people are giving him confounds me.

[bornadog]

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

We all have our opinions but to call others (on this forum) with their opinion sad and pathetic is not on.

[Sedat]

We all have our opinions but to call others (on this forum) with their opinion sad and pathetic is not on.

It's perfectly OK for anybody to direct their rage at Liam Jones/unjabbed people if they want to, and it's perfectly OK for other people to label that general mindset (not any specific individuals) as sad and pathetic, particularly in light of how small that population is (and getting smaller by the day). Neither position is right or wrong.