Following our exes...................

[Sedat]

In a sense, I don't. I don't care if you want to put your own livelihood and health at risk. I will probably think less highly of you for it (general you not you specifically) but I doubt anyone who hasn't got vaccinated actually cares what I think of them.

I do care that it continues to allow the virus to spread more easily, for cases to get higher, for hospitals and doctors and testers and tracers to get more strained and for more mutations to potentially develop. Surely that's obvious though so I'm not even sure why you asked.

Though TBH it seems like it hasn't really been an issue here the same way it has in the US so if anything I'm more worried about people there and other countries with lower rates not getting vaccinated than people here.

Jones I don't really care about either way but the 'respect' people are giving him confounds me.

Appreciate the post hujsh.

There is a point where the metrics in the bolded bit become a question of maths and data and not a question of science and health. For some countries, that point was around 55% double-jabbed (eg:England) and for others that point was a much higher percentage. There's no right and wrong here - it is way above my pay grade to speculate what this point should be. The problem I have is that State and Federal jurisdictions all met on multiple occasions and set what this point should be, then kept changing the metrics, and then did not follow through with removing all restrictions they said they would, even once those revised thresholds (let alone the ones they initially set) were met and exceeded. This is why I don't believe what our leaders say - I am judging them on their actions and behaviours, and they have constantly changed their position without blinking (and always to benefit their own power base) at the expense of the people they are elected to serve. And they won't stop. Perhaps if they spent less time having meandering daily press conferences and more time doing their job and investing in their health infrastructure in the last 18 months, we wouldn't be in a position that we need to reach such incredibly high vax rates to ensure our health systems are robust enough to manage.

Doomsday fearporn data analysts have been to blame as much for misinformation as the interwebz crowd, probably moreso because they have a much bigger platform to spread their wildly inaccurate analysis. And this analysis has been used by some leaders to make the crucial health decisions that have lead to so many disastrous outcomes. When it comes to data, junk in junk out.

[EasternWest]

Doomsday fearporn data analysts.

Great name for an avant garde electro band

[Grantysghost]

I love reading your posts @sedat. I don't always agree but man you have a great handle on the English language and really articulate your ideas well.

Some people are so black and white in their thinking: you're wrong, I'm right for e.g. Complex scenarios have multiple moving parts and require ideas and discussion from a plethora of sources.

It's the way adults work, then we all come to a consensus and the boss does what he wants anyway !

[Sedat]

I love reading your posts @sedat. I don't always agree but man you have a great handle on the English language and really articulate your ideas well.

Some people are so black and white in their thinking: you're wrong, I'm right for e.g. Complex scenarios having multiple moving parts and require ideas and discussion from a plethora of sources.

It's the way adults work, then we all come to a consensus and the boss does what he wants anyway !

Life is full of many different shades of grey, my friend.

[hujsh]

Appreciate the post hujsh.

There is a point where the metrics in the bolded bit become a question of maths and data and not a question of science and health. For some countries, that point was around 55% double-jabbed (eg:England) and for others that point was a much higher percentage. There's no right and wrong here - it is way above my pay grade to speculate what this point should be. The problem I have is that State and Federal jurisdictions all met on multiple occasions and set what this point should be, then kept changing the metrics, and then did not follow through with removing all restrictions they said they would, even once those revised thresholds (let alone the ones they initially set) were met and exceeded. This is why I don't believe what our leaders say - I am judging them on their actions and behaviours, and they have constantly changed their position without blinking (and always to benefit their own power base) at the expense of the people they are elected to serve. And they won't stop. Perhaps if they spent less time having meandering daily press conferences and more time doing their job and investing in their health infrastructure in the last 18 months, we wouldn't be in a position that we need to reach such incredibly high vax rates to ensure our health systems are robust enough to manage.

Doomsday fearporn data analysts have been to blame as much for misinformation as the interwebz crowd, probably moreso because they have a much bigger platform to spread their wildly inaccurate analysis. And this analysis has been used by some leaders to make the crucial health decisions that have lead to so many disastrous outcomes. When it comes to data, junk in junk out.

I'll admit to also having no clue what the 'right numbers' are either. However I'm more skeptical about governments wanting to open too soon to please their business interests (donors) as is the instinct of most governments in capitalist societies. Maybe we did lock down for too long, I'm not sure, and I am sure that with what we know now the whole thing could have been handled much better, but when I look overseas at the US I'm much happier with our response. Maybe other countries (Singapore?) have handled it better overall. I'm not exactly up to date on that side of things.

For me when it comes to government overreach and impeding on people's rights I'm far more concerned with our bi-partisan anti-terror/surveillance laws than vaccine mandates.

[EasternWest]

you're wrong, I'm right

You're wrong about that.

[bornadog]

I'll admit to also having no clue what the 'right numbers' are either. However I'm more skeptical about governments wanting to open too soon to please their business interests (donors) as is the instinct of most governments in capitalist societies. Maybe we did lock down for too long, I'm not sure, and I am sure that with what we know now the whole thing could have been handled much better, but when I look overseas at the US I'm much happier with our response. Maybe other countries (Singapore?) have handled it better overall. I'm not exactly up to date on that side of things.

For me when it comes to government overreach and impeding on people's rights I'm far more concerned with our bi-partisan anti-terror/surveillance laws than vaccine mandates.

We can all complain about our governments here in Australia, but I will say, boy are we lucky. Yes we could have done this and that better.

Take Arizona, a state with 7 million people, roughly the population of Victoria (bit more), didn't really lockdown and over 20,000 dead.

There are many examples around the world, but I am so glad I live in Australia.

[Grantysghost]

You're wrong about that.

Agreed.

[EasternWest]

Agreed.

I don't.

[Grantysghost]

I don't.

Cmon I've done my penance for GF night!

(now I need to make up for the boxing)

[Grantysghost]

Great name for an avant garde electro band

I don't know if you've ever seen the amazing Whats up with that skit on SNL where the host (Keenan Thompson one of my favs) plays a talk show host obsessed with the theme song.
But there's one where Joseph Gordon-Levitt chimes in and I'm sure that he was from Doomsday fearporn.

[Bulldog Joe]

Life is full of many different shades of grey, my friend.

The world does have many hues between black and white and the least common in reality are black and white.

[Ghost Dog]

Well, AFL footy players are going to be crisscrossing a lot around the country, more than the general population, and spend a decent amount of time visiting clinics etc. Probably a good idea they are vaccinated

[The Bulldogs Bite]

The contagious disease has had multiple vaccines available for several months that everybody who wants one has had access to and gotten. Why does anybody who has been jabbed even care about those who haven't? We are all protected. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I'm not interested in vilifying those who are not jabbed because that is precisely what mediocre politicians (with help from the media) want society to do, to find a target other than themselves that people can direct their rage at when the inevitable house of cards on this pandemic falls over. Politicians have caused the destruction of society through their appalling and failed policy interventions that have been unprecedented in our history. They have failed on almost every metric to find a balanced solution to the problem that factors in all other unintended societal and health consequences They have successfully normalised the concept that our most basic of freedoms are now conditional - this is something I will never be supportive of, and I will never be drawn into the cynical narrative of blaming a random, ever-shrinking group for their own personal decisions when it is 100% the responsibility of our elected leaders.

When we are inevitably locked down yet again next winter, I will not be directing my rage at the likes of Liam Jones. It is rather sad and pathetic that anybody would to be honest.

Tend to always agree with your posts, football and non-football related, and this is no different.

Without getting into the debate because I think there's been more than a few well reasoned posts in this thread, the thing that makes me sad is that there's a great divide between humanity now. Government has created an us vs them mentality when it comes to those who are vaccinated and those who are not.

The fact that we have a group of people (vaccinated) discriminating against others (unvaccinated) is putrid behaviour. I'm vaccinated, but I couldn't care less if somebody decided they didn't want to be. It's their decision; it doesn't impact me and theoretically I'm protected (if you believe that).

I hate that the government creates the wedge and walks away without any real accountability, but I'll watch with interest when we hit mid next year with sky high cases and the dreaded 'L' word being thrown around. Wonder if those who have supported the government will still hold the same view?

Regardless, what happened to actually being humane?

If you're somebody pointing the finger at others, perhaps know that you're not entitled to be 'right' - try walking a mile in somebody elses shoes before judging their decisions.

[Twodogs]

You're wrong about that.

Yes you are.

Aren't you?