Following our exes...................

[soupman]

From memory we had pick 4 and wanted to land Bont if he were still available and we also wanted to trade with Essendon for Crameri.
Essendon offered something like their 1st round pick and Crameri for our pick 4 but we held firm.
I guess Dalrymple would have stated his case for Bont but it would have been Jason McCartney who negotiated with Essendon and forced their hand for a 2nd round pick for Crameri.
Dal should be credited for the Bont identification but he would have been in a secondary position in the negotiation. It falls more on J-Mac.

I'm not sure saying you were the reason we didn't give pick 4 for Crameri is the boast JMac may think it is.

[azabob]

That's big news for the Saints. I wonder why he would move from the Swans, it has to be for more money doesn't it?

From what I know he was actually splitting time between Sydney and Melbourne.

He was also number 2 behind Beatson.

I’m guessing he’d be the number one guy at st.kilda and live 100% of the time in Melbourne.

[azabob]

It is. However, when I think about the different things that went tits up in 2017 outside of injury and player behaviour one thing I come back to is competing egos wanting to be stroked as a result of their inputs into our success.

Our coach is absolutely an egotistical beast, but he's not alone in the fraternity on that front. But to have heard relatively strong reports of two list management/ recruiting personnel vying for kudos post 2016 and then leaving tells me something about the club and the people involved at the time.

Maybe what happened with us was normal and some clubs are better than others at offering inducements/ salaries to personnel to put egos aside and stick around. Maybe it isn't and the personnel involved were the problem. We'll never know.

Not sure you can blame Dalyrymple ego for our onfield issues since 2017. Seems a very long bow to draw.

As you rightly say club land, shit the entire afl landscape is full of egos. Some clubs make it work and some can’t.

Do you think we are better off without Dalyrymple?

[azabob]

Is there a record anywhere about the process to get Bont?
Dalrymple tends to get the credit I'm just not aware if there's something concrete that shows how it all happened.

So, you lay the blame at Dalrymples feet for drafting Howard and putting forward that someone else identified and said let’s draft Bontempelli? In the Bont scenario who is the mystery shooter?

[GVGjr]

From what I know he was actually splitting time between Sydney and Melbourne.

He was also number 2 behind Beatson.

I’m guessing he’d be the number one guy at st.kilda and live 100% of the time in Melbourne.

Isn't SOS the list manager at the Saints like Beatson is at the Swans? Basically Dal is replacing Chris Toce who the Saints moved on.
That might mean Dal's just cutting out the travel to Sydney.

I've seen Milesi a fair bit at the training sessions and I assume it's all to do with the new and academy players arriving so there is probably a bit of travel required for Melbourne based recruiters for interstate teams.

[GVGjr]

I'm not sure saying you were the reason we didn't give pick 4 for Crameri is the boast JMac may think it is.

The concept of the Crameri trade was pushed more by B-Mac and Essendon did everything they could to keep him.
J-Mac had to get the deal done and I don't think Dal did much more than identify Bontempelli and then argue the case that we should keep the pick.

[Happy Days]

He also somehow managed to avoid the suggestion of someone on here that we trade pick 4 for Nick Smith.

[Grantysghost]

So, you lay the blame at Dalrymples feet for drafting Howard and putting forward that someone else identified and said let?s draft Bontempelli? In the Bont scenario who is the mystery shooter?

No I wasn't AB. Was trying to untangle why he's so highly regarded is all.
Ha mystery shooter. I'm all over JFK at the moment, reading a great book about the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban missile crisis.
That Oliver Stone movie should come with a massive disclaimer (not based on anything in our universe), LHO did it and did it alone as he was a nut.
I digress, no it wasn't a loaded question.

[Grantysghost]

The concept of the Crameri trade was pushed more by B-Mac and Essendon did everything they could to keep him.
J-Mac had to get the deal done and I don't think Dal did much more than identify Bontempelli and then argue the case that we should keep the pick.

They ended up with their current Captain so that's a win for Dodo.

[Go_Dogs]

I think Dal did plenty good enough with his talent identification. Some picks you have to nail. Macrae, Stringer, Bont were those picks. He also did well with some later selections eg McLean, Daniel, Dunkley, etc who were factors in our premiership side. He’s not infallible (no one is) but he did well at our club probably with limited resources compared to some others.

The list management vs talent identification is an interesting one. I assume the list manager and coach set the strategy for types of players or attributes we want and then the recruiting team complete their evaluations and make recommendations on who fits the bill. In many ways you can’t succeed without both parties doing their bit and getting it right.

[jeemak]

Not sure you can blame Dalyrymple ego for our onfield issues since 2017. Seems a very long bow to draw.

As you rightly say club land, shit the entire afl landscape is full of egos. Some clubs make it work and some can’t.

Do you think we are better off without Dalyrymple?

What I'm saying is success could have unified us and inspired us to aim for more and be better - across the entire club. But then you hear about recruiting and list management fighting over who deserved the kudos for our success, and leaving because they didn't get their way on some marginal recruiting calls and it makes you wonder what the place was like after we won in 2016.

I wasn't saying Dalrymple's ego was the cause of our 2017 malaise, and have no idea whether we'd be better off with our without him, it's moot and not what I was getting at.

[Grantysghost]

I think Dal did plenty good enough with his talent identification. Some picks you have to nail. Macrae, Stringer, Bont were those picks. He also did well with some later selections eg McLean, Daniel, Dunkley, etc who were factors in our premiership side. He’s not infallible (no one is) but he did well at our club probably with limited resources compared to some others.

The list management vs talent identification is an interesting one. I assume the list manager and coach set the strategy for types of players or attributes we want and then the recruiting team complete their evaluations and make recommendations on who fits the bill. In many ways you can’t succeed without both parties doing their bit and getting it right.

Our rookie picks were next level.

Boyd, JJ, Dalhaus I'm sure there's more.

[GVGjr]

What I'm saying is success could have unified us and inspired us to aim for more and be better - across the entire club. But then you hear about recruiting and list management fighting over who deserved the kudos for our success, and leaving because they didn't get their way on some marginal recruiting calls and it makes you wonder what the place was like after we won in 2016.

The club and the footy department had a gap year 2017 and allowed some very troubling behavior to start.
They got rid of Stringer and then realised they needed to do a lot more but the damaged had been done.
Momentum is a difficult switch to flick back on and unfortunately it took us a few years to address it because we let standards drop.
As a club we simply weren't hungry enough for further success and our membership dropped back accordingly.

[GVGjr]

Our rookie picks were next level.

Boyd, JJ, Dalhaus I'm sure there's more.

I talked to Simon at a presentation B-Mac gave the player sponsors in the ELC and I'm not sure if he said it anywhere else since but at the time JJ was the late selection he was most proud of.

[Bulldog Joe]

Our rookie picks were next level.

Boyd, JJ, Dalhaus I'm sure there's more.

Rookie Picks who played in the premiership were
Boyd, Morris, Picken plus JJ and Dahlhaus. Add Fletcher Roberts as pre-season pick.

Pretty strong contribution to the flag but the first 3 were well entrenched before Dalrymple was doing our recruiting.