Booing Adam Goodes.

[hujsh]

I've always loved being a bulldog. Who does Blot write for? The Australian?

Herald Sun. Our English teacher used to get us to read his articles when we had to analyze a piece of writing (pointing out hyperbole and straw-men arguments etc)

[Eastdog]

I think racism against any race of people is terrible and we should discourage people from it but unfortunately there will always be racists out there and people do have a right to hold such views that most would despise.

My concern is with our right to freedom of speech. How do we define morality, obscenity, offence? Everyone has there own views on that and you can't. What I might find offensive might not be offensive to you and vice versa. So in the bigger picture this fundemental human right needs to to be protected - free speech is either for everyone or for no one you can't have it for one section of society and not for another.

[Remi Moses]

That's all good that freedom of expression at the footy, but why the outrage by some with Goodes's Australian of the year speech ?
Seems some like freedom of expression only when you concur with their views

[Remi Moses]

I think racism against any race of people is terrible and we should discourage people from it but unfortunately there will always be racists out there and people do have a right to hold such views that most would despise.

My concern is with our right to freedom of speech. How do we define morality, obscenity, offence? Everyone has there own views on that and you can't. What I might find offensive might not be offensive to you and vice versa. So in the bigger picture this fundemental human right needs to to be protected - free speech is either for everyone or for no one you can't have it for one section of society and not for another.

Sadly there is a racial element to this and an ignorance to a fellow human being .

[Eastdog]

That's all good that freedom of expression at the footy, but why the outrage by some with Goodes's Australian of the year speech ?
Seems some like freedom of expression only when you concur with their views

That's the problem RM. Freedom of speech goes both ways and it must be defended absolutely. The problem is that everyone has their own version of what free speech protects like you said RM and that is not how the game is played.

[Twodogs]

I've come around on this. In the beginning I thought Goodes was being a bit of a sook and just needed to get over it. Now I can see that it's affecting him pretty badly and I don't think we've got the right to drive a guy away from a sport he obviously loves to play.

I'm thinking I'll ease up on the guy. He's had enough.

[Eastdog]

I've come around on this. In the beginning I thought Goodes was being a bit of a sook and just needed to get over it. Now I can see that it's affecting him pretty badly and I don't think we've got the right to drive a guy away from a sport he obviously loves to play.

I'm thinking I'll ease up on the guy. He's had enough.

But the question Twodogs: Is the booing racist?

[hujsh]

That's the problem RM. Freedom of speech goes both ways and it must be defended absolutely. The problem is that everyone has their own version of what free speech protects like you said RM and that is not how the game is played.

That's a very US view. I'm fine with some restrictions on speech if that speech is, for example, inciting hatred/violence or is libelous. This issue, to me at least, is more about whether we are willing to tolerate a player being targeted because of his race and what he's said about racial issues and whether that is what is happening here.

It's also worth noting that freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. Expressing racist views of Facebook can get you fired. In that vein I'd hope a supporter telling Goodes to go back to the zoo would be shouted down by fellow supporters.

But the question Twodogs: Is the booing racist?

Targeting an individual for race based reasons whether with booing, insults, physical violence or anything else probably is. Seems to be likely that's at least one of the root causes for Goodes being targeted, even if other reasons play a part

[Eastdog]

That's a very US view. I'm fine with some restrictions on speech if that speech is, for example, inciting hatred/violence or is libelous. This issue, to me at least, is more about whether we are willing to tolerate a player being targeted because of his race and what he's said about racial issues and whether that is what is happening here.

It's also worth noting that freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. Expressing racist views of Facebook can get you fired. In that vein I'd hope a supporter telling Goodes to go back to the zoo would be shouted down by fellow supporters.

Even the 1st Amendment has restrictions like you said speech that incites rioting and defamation etc but if speech was popular then you wouldn't need the protection of free speech. Its offensive speech and that we despise that needs protecting. As Voltaire said "I may not agree with what you say but ill will defend to the death your right to say it".

When government gets involved in regulating someone thoughts and what they say then that affects all of us. We should have more unfettered free speech to challenge that speech that we find very distasteful.

[jeemak]

Easty, as long as everyone has the same level of access to the megaphones then unfettered free speech is all good. But we know that isn't the case and certain voices are over represented whilst others don't get heard.

Going off topic a little here........

[Eastdog]

Thought I just weigh in a little bit but really I just want to get back to footy talk myself. Ive avoided this thread before today.

[jeemak]

Thought I just weigh in a little bit but really I just want to get back to footy talk myself. Ive avoided this thread before today.

I hear ya, can't wait to see us take it up to the Bombres this Sunday!

[Scraggers]

But the question Twodogs: Is the booing racist?

If it because he pointed out the 13 year old or because he did a war dance or anything related to these events then the answer is the booing is very racist !!

[1eyedog]

Was he booed like this before the war dance? I think he was booed like any other controversial player would be. The booing became widespread and consistent on a weekly basis after that dance.

[jeemak]

Was he booed like this before the war dance? I think he was booed like any other controversial player would be. The booing became widespread and consistent on a weekly basis after that dance.

There were sporadic instances of him being booed prior to the war dance, and they - from reports - got to the point where he was being booed regularly and some attribute this to his outspoken take towards his use of being Australian of the Year to push his cause. The war dance and invisible spear towards the Carlton supporters at the SCG was probably at a time where he thought enough was enough.

Once again the argument is being over simplified with areas of society attempting to make Goodes the perpetrator/inciting party in this whole thing, but all you need to do is go back to the start of this thread to know that the mass destruction of innocent football fans due to an invisible spear was a reaction to the crowd.

The invisible spear is just a hyper version of the bullshit that's been sprouted about his Australia Day speech. By the end of this coming week it will be the sole reason why people are pissed off at him (if it wasn't already).