Bulldogs reflective - The Trade Period

[GVGjr]

Now that the season is over our focus is now on three vital list management periods to improve our playing list. This includes Trade Period, National Combine and the National Draft.

I'm going to break up this analysis into 3 threads so that we can hopefully keep the threads focused on the topic.

The Trade Period

Key dates:

Friday October 9 - NAB AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period begins
Monday October 12, 10am - NAB AFL Trade Period begins
Sunday October 18, 5pm - Close of NAB AFL restricted free agency offer and unrestricted free agency period
Wednesday October 21 - NAB AFL restricted free agency matching offer three-day period ends
Thursday October 22, 2pm – NAB AFL Trade Period closes

The Trade Period includes settling the order for the draft picks before the National Draft, clubs bidding on father/son candidates and academy players and of course trading players and draft picks between clubs.

Interesting to me, it's regarded as a hectic and stressful time for clubs and players and yet essentially it also tends to meander along after frustrated teams, player managers and of course the players themselves all posture, threaten and, like the participants of the World Series of Poker, bluff and bluff again in an effort to pull off a recruiting coup and get their own way.
The deals tend to get settled thick and fast on the last day when everyone eventually comes to their senses. There are of course perceived winners and losers and certain clubs reputations as being difficult to deal with and this will be discussed often until our attention turns to the National Draft.

It's unlikely our beloved Bulldogs will be big players this year and it's doubtful there will be another Tom Boyd type deal conjured up let alone completed which of course shocked the AFL footy community last year as the upstart Dogs dared to become so creative and pinch a prized scalp from one of those manufactured and heartless teams from the northern states. Unfortunately I can't see us returning to those heady days this year but wouldn't it give those lazy arse journos something to focus on again if we were to make another big move?

I suspect we will make some minor adjustments to the list with just a tweak or two here or there as we put the onus on the assistant and development coaches to keep improving the young and talented players we already have.

We've said goodbye to Matthew Fuller, Sam Darley and former father son selection in Ayce Cordy and it's very likely that we will be saying goodbye to 'loose lips sink ships' Michael Talia and we might also be waving goodbye to the likes of Jarrad Grant and maybe even Will Minson. I suspect that Minson will see out his final year though. Like most of his career, Grant's immediate future will be a bit of a mystery to us for a little longer.

So what do we need from the trade period?

- We've had a crack at getting a quality ruckman like Stefan Martin from Brisbane but that seems unlikely. We haven't made a lot of noise about Matthew Leuenberger or Zac Smith and then Zac Clarke's name appeared for a brief moment before he quickly decided to sign another deal with Fremantle.

- A key defender would be great but it appears Jake Carlisle is determined to help fast track Carlton on their road to mediocrity rather than making a common sense pitch for a spot with us. Did I read somewhere that the general consensus is that he might not be the sharpest tool in the shed? I digress.

- A strong bodied and skilled midfielder would also be helpful although with the return of the injured Thomas Liberatore and Koby Stevens imminent and potentially (lets keep our fingers and toes crossed) a return of Clay Smith sometime during the season might diminish that need.

Based on all that I'm of the belief that we could potentially trade for a player starved for opportunities at another club much like Shane Biggs last year. Actually we might secure a more known player but I think you get the picture that it won't be a big name player. (I mean reputation wise not a player with more initials in his name than Bontempelli or Giansiracusa)

We have some currency to offer if needed, a first and second round pick (11 and 30) could be valuable this year especially for clubs needing points to cover father son or academy players plus we might even try to find a home for old Loose Lips Talia. Does the club consider offers for the out of favour Hrovat if opposition clubs ask the question?
We would also trade future draft picks from next year but I hope we don't.

So I'd be interesting in hearing from a few of you on the following questions:

- Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?
Please put a bit of an effort in with your responses if you could

- Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?

- Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?
Be creative if you must but try and make it realistic

Hope to hear from you.

[bornadog]

The whole year I have heard we are after a ruckman and a CHB/Key defender, even before the Talia incident.

The ruck is our biggest concern, especially since we delisted Ayce. Beveridge has tried a number of different players throughout the year and hasn't been impressed with Will, although in the end we had no choice but to play him in the finals. But what about next year. Will Campbell finally take over as number one ruck, that is a big ask and risk. Roughie seems to not have the body to play the first ruck role and Minson is not the right man for the role in the eyes of Bevo.

This means we have to shore up our rucks. Gorringe is one we have thought about, but he hasn't kicked on and maybe won't pass the no dickheads policy.

I think we will make a big play for a ruckman, but I am not sure who.

In regards to the other big play, well we know Carlisle has been spoken about, but what about Henderson, surely Geelong won't be able to fit him in and he would be ideal for us.

In conclusion, I think we will be active in trading for two key roles that need plugging.

[boydogs]

I didn't think we were necessarily short a KPD or ruckman, maybe developing ones on the rookie list, but Talia & Ayce Cordy going means we could well be looking at mature targets. An 18 year old is not going to help in the short term, and being 7 points away from the 2nd week of finals we should look to fill the gaps with 21yo+ players ala Hamling last year

Beveridge clearly values different traits in talls (athleticism, flexibility) to other clubs so there may be a moneyball aspect to what we do rather than going for the biggest names

[Remi Moses]

Henderson's a decent get imho, and certainly no worse than Carlisle .
I wouldn't discount Martin, and particularly if Bris Vegas are targeting Lycett or Sinclair .

[bulldogtragic]

Great thread GVGjr, especially to focus.

Our Percentage this year tells the tale of a high scoring team, but also giving up a lot of points. So it goes that this is one of the big areas to look at. With Bob, Boyd, Wood, JJ, Biggs, Prudden, Webb and Cordy I'm happy about our run and mid sized defenders. Morris can hold the third tall spot for a year, but then there's big shoes to fill that spot. We've got Roberts & Hamling who have shown a bit but not enough to over rely on. There's Roughy, but this year he was played everywhere so who knows if he's a defender next year??

So, a mature backman is equal top of the list. I like Henderson, but the Geelong trade noises seem like a done deal. Carlisle not coming either. Most KPDs contracted and nothing really high quality seemingly gettable. I joked earlier this year about getting Lake back for a year as long as it was a free trade. It's very unlikely, but not as crazy now. Talia doing what he did is hurting on another level. Perhaps we look to a state league KPD??

The other glaring weakness is the ruck. Anyone linked to us dried up with Kruezer passed, Luey not linked anymore, Clarke signing and Martin said to have worked out the home sickness like thingy. Lycett or Sinclair might be interesting. I guess if nothing pans out Minson must stay, Roughy possible ruckman with Campbell and drafting or rookieing coverage like Fitzpatrick.

Then there's still a need for some class mids, I'm happy with outside run as Libba, Stevens and Smith give us that edge back if fit. Treloar, Bennell and Danger all picked other clubs if they can do it. Could we chip a player 25-30 on a Hawthorn type list - Jed Anderson?

I'd like at least draft picks, plus Darcy Mac if we want him. Another first round gun would be very handy, so unless it's a great trade then go to the draft. Boyd was worth it, but we lost pick 6 last year. Talia nets a good trade or he goes to the draft. We need to add two rucks on the list, coverage like a Fitzpatrick and then a kid to develop. As for outs, Talia is gone and Minson and Grant seem close. Again the incoming pick/player needs to justify the outgoing.

[F'scary]

- Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?

I don't feel confident about a big recruiting coup based on what has happened so far with the prominent players who are known to be on the move.

I think we could well opt to trade for players rather than draft picks due to the already pronounced youth of our list and the potential retirement of two (M. Boyd and Morris) of our best players at the conclusion of 2016. Our obvious trade cards are Hrovat and Talia. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Redpath was being shopped around.

If we choose not to match any offer Grant may receive, the compensation will not be that great and the pick will most likely be used to trade for a player who is "ready to go."

I would regard the recruitment of Henderson as a KPB as a coup. He is 26 next season. I would be interested to hear opinions on what we should give up to secure his services. I have the feeling that our second round pick plus Hrovat could go close but may be pipped by the offer of a late 1st round or very early second round pick by another club.


- Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?

I genuinely don't believe that we are desperate for ready made ruckman for 2016 and that will curtail the Club's motivation to trade one in. A decent KPD on offer, though, could well lead us to offer overs (e.g., our first round pick plus Hrovat).

- Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?

We have delisted 2 half back flanker types, I could see us acquiring one or two bigger bodied half backs to give the match committee more selection options next season.

[LostDoggy]

As a side note, its interesting to reflect that Hawthorn's premiership team (4 GFs in a row) included 7 traded in players acquired over several years. They were 3 tall defenders (Lake, Gibson, Frawley), 2 rucks (Hale, McEvoy), 1 utility (tallish, highly skilled, hard runner who can play inside/outside mid, forward or back - perfect team strengthener in Burgoyne) and 1 mobile tall forward (Gunston).

What is interesting is that this list pretty much mirrors our current requirements.

Of course, Hawthorn acquired these guys over several years as we will need to. If we can surgically find either a quality KPD or Ruck this trade period, we will have done well. Both will be magic.

[LostDoggy]

Will we pull off a big recruiting coup this year or even trade for another player?

I think we'll be a player in trade week. We may not figure at the front-page-of-the-newspaper level that we did in October 2015, but I feel we have a fair bit actually working for us:

1. We aren't quite Hawthorn, but we are an attractive proposition to a player who feels he's not getting the opportunities/money elsewhere. We have a fair bit of cap space still, we are playing a good style of football that has media talking, and for a player who wants to "re-invent" themselves and re-launch their career, a club like the Dogs is a perfect place to do that. "Get a good wage, become an important cog and watch the journos write about how much the team has improved with your presence" is a line that a smart manager will be feeding to a fair few players that might fit the bill.
2. I don't see the Loose Lips Shemozzle being that big a turn-off for other clubs, to be honest. OK, so the Swans aren't going for it, but there are plenty of clubs who'll back their culture to make a player out of a guy who is probably seen as simply disgruntled where he is, but he has shown some potential. They may even be discussing how the whole situation was caused by our treatment of the guy in the first place (I don't agree, don't flame me!) and how at a "better" club he can be turned around. If Carlisle came to us, I'd be surprised if Carlton didn't knock on our door for Talia.
3. Money and trade options aside, there have been many column inches written about how close our playing group are. I just recently moved from Seddon/Yarraville and I can tell you, I've seen the guys out and about and they are tight. Adds to point 1.
4. We have two high quality personnel in Dalrymple and JMac who I trust 100% to do the right deal at the right price, even if it is considered overs at first, to improve our list. These aren't the guys who are going to trade away this year's first pick and next year's first pick to get a Peter Street. Those days are behind us.
5. With the Crameri trade, the Lake trade, Josh Hill, etc. we have built a reputation as being a good club to trade with. Opposition clubs (Essendon aside) will be sitting down at our table with good will and expectations of a fair trade.

Will we find a ruckman or a key defender or both during the trade period?
One this year, one the next, is my expectation. I'm hoping we get a defender first as we've shown we can counter the ruck situation somewhat. I see a KPD as our biggest hole. Funny isn't it? Get one end sorted, finally, and the other opens up.

Realistically what sort of player or which particular player do you think we might acquire?

This is where I fall short. Not nearly enough knowledge of what's around the AFL or state leagues to have any sort of educated opinion.

[Jeanette54]

According to trade radio Hawthorn have not offered Brian Lake a new contract, yet. If that doesn't happen is there a chance that Brian might come back to us?

[LostDoggy]

Here is my list of 8 players who would feasibly be tadeable to us at the right price who could add significantly to our list.

I am bearing in mind Dalrymple's motto; draft for quality, trade for specific needs. IMO our areas of specific need are Ruck and KPD. I think if we could jag 1 Ruck and/or 1 KPD who can vie for best 22 selection this trade season we'll have done well. One of each would be ideal.

I reckon the following have some potential for us:

- Michael Apeness (Freo), 200 cm/101 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 17 in 2013 draft but only managed 2 games in 2 years. Vic Metro/Eastern Ranges junior reputedly good friends with Tom Boyd and homesick. Missed a big chunk of this year with a PCL. Ruckman who can go forward. Not much opportunity at Freo behind Sandilands, Clarke, Griffin and Hannath. Has good hands, mobility and aggression and a Rugby Union background being in junior development programmes with Melbourne Rebels. Uncontracted.

- David Astbury (Rich), 195/95, 24YO. 41 games in 5 years at Tiges, but has been cruelled by weird injuries. Like our own Jarrad Grant missed games after stepping on a sting ray barb (!). At times has looked highly competent as a key defender. Strong overhead, mobile enough and good organiser. Was personally selected by Matthew Richrdson to wear the No.12. Has a year left on contract but apparently wants a change. Brisbane keen, Leppa knows him well.

- Lachie Henderson (Carl), 196/95, 25YO, expected to go to Geelong, but Dangerfield deal a decent chance to scupper that. No world beater but can hold down a KPD. Has athletic ability and has been mucked around in crap teams all his career. Could trade him for our 2nd and steak knives, Carlton love our steak knives. May end up a bargain.

- Tom Hickey (StK), 201/94, 24YO, Athletic ruckman who can go forward. 41 games/17 goals since debuting in 2011 (first 2 yrs at GCS). Has struggled for sufficient game time vs similar type in Billy Longer. Is rumoured to be gettable with Essendon interested. Is a Bevo type with elite aerobic capacity.

- Matthew Lobbe (Port), 200 cm, 98 kg, 26 YO. First Ruck for Port for several years. Strengths are good tap ruckman, goes all day and outstanding competitor (averages over 6 tackles per game in recent years and can lay 10+ in a match, rare for a ruckman). Ordinary mobility though and marking and disposal winning abilities are limited. Signed a 5 year deal at Port at end of 2014 when looked a #1 Ruck lock but Ryder and C.Dixon signings have changed things and he is now potentially overpaid within their structure. Has seen the writing on the wall and club has given manager permission to test the market. Port are said to be very tight capwise. Circumstances could result in a favourable deal here.

- Luke Lowden (Crows), 204/102, 24 YO. Real speculative here maybe as a trade for Talia or a low round pick. Has had 5 years on AFL lists, 4 at Hawthorn, 1 at Crows. Project development player at Hawks - only got 1 game but did well, Rucking and kicking 3 goals. Dogged by Achilles. Missed early last year, but finished strongly in SANFL. Has done development work with Podsiadly who really rates him.

- Scott Lycett (WCE) 203/103 22YO, first Ruck who can't get a run ahead of NicNat or Sinclair, who fits in as forward/ruck but is not the natural Ruck Lycett is. Has 3 years left on a contract but is reportedly frustrated by lack of opportunity. Has managed 28 games and 21 goals in 4 seasons.

-Peter Wright (GCS), 203 cm, 100 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 8 2014 draft. 1 year in system, 3 games. Calder Cannons junior with outstanding hands, athleticism, a great kick, good goalkicker at junior level. Moonee Ponds boy. 1 year left on contract. Have heard talk we have been particularly active with GCS list managers, hoping he is a topic of conversation.

[G-Mo77]

Peter Wright (GCS), 203 cm, 100 kg, 19 YO. Selected at pick 8 2014 draft. 1 year in system, 3 games. Calder Cannons junior with outstanding hands, athleticism, a great kick, good goalkicker at junior level. Moonee Ponds boy. 1 year left on contract. Have heard talk we have been particularly active with GCS list managers, hoping he is a topic of conversation.

I remember he was on our radar in that draft? Right? I'm pretty sure he pulled out of the U18 GF and didn't get to see him last year. I was looking forward to see our next first round pick playing but instead we got Tom Boyd with that pick.



sarcasm before anyone jumps on me.

[azabob]

Nice summary PP. I'd imagine Wright, Hickey, lobbe and lycett would take our first round pick or a top 20 pick for Lycett.

Out of the ruckmen you put up who is your preferred one? And what would it take to get him?

[Bulldog4life]

Nice summary PP. I'd imagine Wright, Hickey, lobbe and lycett would take our first round pick or a top 20 pick for Lycett.

Out of the ruckmen you put up who is your preferred one? And what would it take to get him?

Read a quote today from Lobbe's manager that Lobbe doesn't want to leave Port

[F'scary]

According to trade radio Hawthorn have not offered Brian Lake a new contract, yet. If that doesn't happen is there a chance that Brian might come back to us?

You would have to be interested.

[LostDoggy]

Read a quote today from Lobbe's manager that Lobbe doesn't want to leave Port

It's hard to know what to believe this time of year. Craig Hutchison on radio today said Lobbe told Port at his exit interview that he was open to a trade and that Port had given their blessing to test the market.