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  1. #76
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    One solution might be taking away any discount for a top 20 bid.

    If you want the kid and he's rated highly, you cough up and get pushed back in the queue (or trade future picks to get back into the draft).
    If anything, I would INCREASE the discount.

    The clubs need an incentive to spend their time and money on their assigned region. Why would they do that if every time they help bring through a truly high-level talent they don't get any benefit/advantage with regards recruiting them then...why bother???

    I just think the JUH situation is incredibly unique.

    1/. He hasn't played footy all year. No-one ACTUALLY KNOWS if he is the number 1 pick or number 21 pick.
    2/. He was selected on athleticism and promise - recruiters LOVE athleticism and promise (holy hell, look at Essendon's first 2 picks) and he was clearly #1 in those categories this year.
    3/. In a year with little footy played (u18) a LOT of emphasis was placed on JUH that in other years would be 'spread around' as individuals have good games/periods of form/championship games etc.

    I look at the player and his background and would ask how many other indigenous players from Framlingham have been drafted? You look at his background and draft reports and he is reported as variously being from Oakleigh/Metro and Oakleigh/Country. Well, he isn't from Country or Metro in as much as he NEVER PLAYED FOR EITHER. Country cut him as a bottom ager...there were no champs this year...seriously, without the academy system, the opportunities this has given him to train at the club etc is he the number 1 pick? And if it was a 'normal' year and there was no academy and he fell to pick 45 and then took a couple of years to find his feet etc, is he getting a second contract? This isn't a talent play. This is a 'high picks are treated differently to later picks' type comment and I have no doubt his involvements at our club have helped move his footy forward...

    This is a BIG MISTAKE the AFL are making.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  3. #77
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    So.

    I just want to make a counter point on the Academy system.

    There has been lots of talk on here and in the media about how our club simply 'got lucky' with JUH. I'm not sure I agree with this.

    1/. He 100% has come from an environment that does NOT produce AFL footballers. The academy system, the promise/commitments made by the club AND the time spent with the lad have absolutely contributed to his development.

    2/. Given that we don't exactly have enough players to fill 18x teams right now, EVERYTHING we (the game) does to add more potential athletes to the pool should be seen as a GOOD thing. The academy system is a GOOD thing.

    3/. If there is any reduction in the time spent by each club on their 'region' due to the policy change, well...that's BAD.

    I have turned my opinion around on this. I really did think it was a joke that the entire state of WA was being split between 2x clubs, but how many kids from the North West of WA ever (EVER) make it? Geraldton is 400kms north of Perth...who from the 3000kms north of there has ever got there? Joel Hamling (Broome). Jack Martin (Broome). Anyone else??? Anything that can be done to increase the hit rate and bring more talented athletes into the pathway should be seen as a good thing. I was wrong. The AFL is wrong. The academy system should be protected and players like JUH from non-traditional (from an AFL perspective) pathways should be encouraged to find a way to participate.

    The AFL itself is not set up to support the regions which is why they handballed it to the clubs...now the clubs have been discouraged from fully committing...I think that's bad. Very (very) bad.
    Great couple of posts mjp.
    "Lord, give me coffee to change things I can change, and whisky to accept the ones I can not.

  4. #78
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    If anything, I would INCREASE the discount.

    The clubs need an incentive to spend their time and money on their assigned region. Why would they do that if every time they help bring through a truly high-level talent they don't get any benefit/advantage with regards recruiting them then...why bother???

    I just think the JUH situation is incredibly unique.

    1/. He hasn't played footy all year. No-one ACTUALLY KNOWS if he is the number 1 pick or number 21 pick.
    2/. He was selected on athleticism and promise - recruiters LOVE athleticism and promise (holy hell, look at Essendon's first 2 picks) and he was clearly #1 in those categories this year.
    3/. In a year with little footy played (u18) a LOT of emphasis was placed on JUH that in other years would be 'spread around' as individuals have good games/periods of form/championship games etc.

    I look at the player and his background and would ask how many other indigenous players from Framlingham have been drafted? You look at his background and draft reports and he is reported as variously being from Oakleigh/Metro and Oakleigh/Country. Well, he isn't from Country or Metro in as much as he NEVER PLAYED FOR EITHER. Country cut him as a bottom ager...there were no champs this year...seriously, without the academy system, the opportunities this has given him to train at the club etc is he the number 1 pick? And if it was a 'normal' year and there was no academy and he fell to pick 45 and then took a couple of years to find his feet etc, is he getting a second contract? This isn't a talent play. This is a 'high picks are treated differently to later picks' type comment and I have no doubt his involvements at our club have helped move his footy forward...

    This is a BIG MISTAKE the AFL are making.
    This needs to be sent to whoever has their finger on the trigger at AFL central immediately.

  5. #79
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    If anything, I would INCREASE the discount.

    The clubs need an incentive to spend their time and money on their assigned region. Why would they do that if every time they help bring through a truly high-level talent they don't get any benefit/advantage with regards recruiting them then...why bother???

    I just think the JUH situation is incredibly unique.

    1/. He hasn't played footy all year. No-one ACTUALLY KNOWS if he is the number 1 pick or number 21 pick.
    2/. He was selected on athleticism and promise - recruiters LOVE athleticism and promise (holy hell, look at Essendon's first 2 picks) and he was clearly #1 in those categories this year.
    3/. In a year with little footy played (u18) a LOT of emphasis was placed on JUH that in other years would be 'spread around' as individuals have good games/periods of form/championship games etc.

    I look at the player and his background and would ask how many other indigenous players from Framlingham have been drafted? You look at his background and draft reports and he is reported as variously being from Oakleigh/Metro and Oakleigh/Country. Well, he isn't from Country or Metro in as much as he NEVER PLAYED FOR EITHER. Country cut him as a bottom ager...there were no champs this year...seriously, without the academy system, the opportunities this has given him to train at the club etc is he the number 1 pick? And if it was a 'normal' year and there was no academy and he fell to pick 45 and then took a couple of years to find his feet etc, is he getting a second contract? This isn't a talent play. This is a 'high picks are treated differently to later picks' type comment and I have no doubt his involvements at our club have helped move his footy forward...

    This is a BIG MISTAKE the AFL are making.
    Which is weird since they went with this model to grow their ‘brand’. They want more kids all over the land playing and one option would be to fund this push themselves AND staff it. They outsourced the program into 18 clubs and the payoff was that if the clubs found a ‘good one’ then that was the payoff as well as keeping NGA spending outside of all caps. What usually happens when the boss tells 18 busy workers to stay back in their own time and do their job for no real reward?

    Why not pump the money in elite/state U/16 to U/18 coaches? Whatever dollars the clubs might get, it’s not going to make much difference in the wages and tying up key list/draft staff. That money into the coaches/clubs might achieve a close outcome of ‘growing the brand’ and bringing in a variety of talent to elite pathways, while injecting overdue money to coaches/clubs.

    What does the afel want this program to be?
    Is the afel making consistent decisions to this end?
    Is there another way?
    In tight footy dept spending times, will 18 clubs despite any subsidy continue the brand exercise or will they focus on things far more certain?
    Ret.

  6. #80
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post

    Why not pump the money in elite/state U/16 to U/18 coaches? Whatever dollars the clubs might get, it’s not going to make much difference in the wages and tying up key list/draft staff. That money into the coaches/clubs might achieve a close outcome of ‘growing the brand’ and bringing in a variety of talent to elite pathways, while injecting overdue money to coaches/clubs.
    Look - I'm sure everyone would take more money. But the problem is unless you had 3-4 full-time staff at each club (talent manager, coach, 'regional' coach and combo admin/stats/video person) would it be enough? Throwing an extra $50K at a coach to make the role full-time doesn't help if they are already earning $120K at their 'day job' and would have to give that up to become a full-time coach for $80K...the maths don't work on any level.

    The regions need warm-bodies with a talent vs participation incentive if we want to start getting players from places other than Scotch College.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  7. #81
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Look - I'm sure everyone would take more money. But the problem is unless you had 3-4 full-time staff at each club (talent manager, coach, 'regional' coach and combo admin/stats/video person) would it be enough? Throwing an extra $50K at a coach to make the role full-time doesn't help if they are already earning $120K at their 'day job' and would have to give that up to become a full-time coach for $80K...the maths don't work on any level.

    The regions need warm-bodies with a talent vs participation incentive if we want to start getting players from places other than Scotch College.
    What about the AFL funding schools to act as defacto NGA academies, providing scholarship money and resources for kids outside the standard pathway?
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  8. #82
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    What about the AFL funding schools to act as defacto NGA academies, providing scholarship money and resources for kids outside the standard pathway?
    If only we could create a scholastic model where footy is not a 'hook' but an outcome?

    There are 'specialty' AFL schools scattered all over the suburbs of Perth...I am yet to see a single draftee from one of those schools. The programs are there to attract students not produce players...and guess what? The schools are there to provide base-level education and tertiary pathways, not produce AFL players. I just don't see this as a solution in any way.

    Footy should focus on footy and the education system should focus on education. The players themselves? Well, they have to 'come half-way' - there has to be some level of 'extra' sacrifice/commitment if they are going to make it and making the footy stuff 'easy' by integrating it into the classroom (and taking away a component of 'real' work)...I just dont think it works from a footy perspective.

    Education wise? Sure, otherwise Clontarf and SEDA and other such organisations would be failing...but these schools have proven an ability to achieve high-school completion/graduation for otherwise marginalised students (either ethnically or educationally) whereas neither have shown an ability to produce AFL footballers.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  9. #83
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    Re: The Academy System

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    The regions need warm-bodies with a talent vs participation incentive if we want to start getting players from places other than Scotch College.
    Basketball has already overtaken AFL in junior participation rates. There is a risk that if only private schools provide a legitimate pathway to the elite level, the AFL starts to follow the RU path and that would be disasterous,

    The Academy is as much about warding off rival sports as it is about providing pathways. Alex Keath was a pre-listed 17 year old who would have dropped football altogether without a junior pathway. JUH was a talented basketballer. The Jacks come from RL royalty. I'm sure that every year there are 1-2 kids that may have been lost to the AFL system without the academy system.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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