Channel 7 and Anzac Day

[Bulldog4life]

When I was younger, I used to hold similar views...until I thought about how the blokes who went to the Kakoda Trail were just blokes like you and me who just walked out of their normal lives to defend our country.

My late father was only 19 years old when he enlisted in the navy at the start of WW11. He was stationed in Darwin.The house he was taking cover under in Darwin was bombed. He survived. His mate next to him didn't.

[LostDoggy]

An honest conversation about some of these conflicts and our involvement would be much more respectful to the people that died there than the over the top patriotism that passes for coverage in a lot of the media these days.

[Ghost Dog]

The self mythologizing we do at ANZAC Day. It was the birth of the nation, we were fighting for freedom, everyone soldier was a hero etc.

It's a part of who we are, but we build up the favorable aspects and ignore what's inconvenient. It's a nicer origin story than invading and killing indigenous people, it overlooks the pointlessness of WW1 (a common theme of returning soldiers is disillusion over why they were even fighting) and while there were certainly brave soldiers there were plenty of rapists, murderers and tons of racists in the lot as well (though finding a war where one side did not commit war crimes would be pretty damn hard).

Pretty much every nation has a version or two of this though.

Also it feeds into our habit of supporting troops at war and commemorating the dead but ignoring the living veterans who need help and suffer with mental heath issues.

Anyway that's just how I feel about it. I think I've potentially derailed the thread.

I never heard a Vietnam veteran say we were fighting for freedom. My uncle was a Tank commander in Vietnam and he is quite realistic about the whole thing. I never heard anyone ever in the service claim every soldier was a hero. I think they use the term 'baptism of fire' rather than birth of a nation.

Nevertheless, was it Safeway that got caught out last year using Anzac to spruik something in a crude way?
In rural vic, where I am from, Anzac Day is not jingoistic or blown up. it's usually quiet and reflective.
The only ones I hate are the local members of parliment (Dan Teehan, member for Wanon - idiot ) who use it as a political football.

[Ghost Dog]

The self mythologizing we do at ANZAC Day. It was the birth of the nation, we were fighting for freedom, everyone soldier was a hero etc.

It's a part of who we are, but we build up the favorable aspects and ignore what's inconvenient. It's a nicer origin story than invading and killing indigenous people, it overlooks the pointlessness of WW1 (a common theme of returning soldiers is disillusion over why they were even fighting) and while there were certainly brave soldiers there were plenty of rapists, murderers and tons of racists in the lot as well (though finding a war where one side did not commit war crimes would be pretty damn hard).

Pretty much every nation has a version or two of this though.

Also it feeds into our habit of supporting troops at war and commemorating the dead but ignoring the living veterans who need help and suffer with mental heath issues.

Anyway that's just how I feel about it. I think I've potentially derailed the thread.

I never heard a Vietnam veteran say we were fighting for freedom. My uncle was a Tank commander in Vietnam and he is quite realistic about the whole thing. I never heard anyone ever in the service claim every soldier was a hero. I think they use the term 'baptism of fire' rather than birth of a nation.

Nevertheless, was it Safeway that got caught out last year using Anzac to spruik something in a crude way? It's getting out of hand. Even the logo on the jumper is a bit much.

I knew an ex Commando who was a lovely old chap. He hated going to the RSL, and my uncle only just started going to the march in recent years.

In rural vic, where I am from, Anzac Day is not jingoistic or blown up. it's usually quiet and reflective.
The only ones I hate are the local members of politicians who use it as a political football. And yes, bloody Channel 7.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

An honest conversation about some of these conflicts and our involvement would be much more respectful to the people that died there than the over the top patriotism that passes for coverage in a lot of the media these days.

Whole-heartedly agree I sometimes wonder whether the old diggers from wars long gone would cringe at the nationalistic jingoism and mythologising that has at times overtaken the original intent of remembering and paying tribute to those who served and those who never returned.
Many old diggers never spoke of the horrors and i tend to think that they would say that the better honour you could pay them for their service is to enjoy the day, enjoy and protect the freedoms and lifestyle we are fortunate to have. And to be hopeful that we should never have to endure such horrors of war. But since the mid 90s there seems to be a changing of the narrative for other purposes.

[hujsh]

An honest conversation about some of these conflicts and our involvement would be much more respectful to the people that died there than the over the top patriotism that passes for coverage in a lot of the media these days.

Absolutely. And to be honest it's the lack of critical though as much as anything that I suppose unsettles me

When I was younger, I used to hold similar views...until I thought about how the blokes who went to the Kakoda Trail were just blokes like you and me who just walked out of their normal lives to defend our country.

And WW2 is pretty much the only war where you can be proud we participated and feel that some good was achieved. But even then there were probably blokes more concerned about the 'Yellow Peril' than anything else

I never heard a Vietnam veteran say we were fighting for freedom. My uncle was a Tank commander in Vietnam and he is quite realistic about the whole thing. I never heard anyone ever in the service claim every soldier was a hero. I think they use the term 'baptism of fire' rather than birth of a nation.

The only ones I hate are the local members of parliment (Dan Teehan, member for Wanon - idiot ) who use it as a political football

I don't get the impression this is driven by servicemen or the Army. Like you say politicians like to use it for their own gain and John Howard played a huge role in making ANZAC Day what it is today and shaping the public view of it. It's become a page in the history of the 'culture wars' now.

[Sedat]

I think this is another example of people 'searching' for ways to get offended! If you cared that much for the last post, you should have gone to a service or watched the ABC's coverage. I say this without cheapening the sacrifices/efforts of soldiers. Whether we observe or do not observe certain aspects of the day does not diminish the truth of those sacrifices!

It's not about being offended or otherwise, it's about holding those useless scumbags at Ch 7 to account for their insipid failure to show even the most basic level of respect when The Last Post was played. There is simply no excuse, but I would not expect any better from those pricks.

I'm enjoying the discussion on Anzac Day in this thread. What was once a quiet and respectful day of reflection has recently been turned into something more overt and nationalistic - I'm not particularly comfortable with it but I still treat the day with due circumspection and reflection.

[1eyedog]

When I was younger, I used to hold similar views...until I thought about how the blokes who went to the Kakoda Trail were just blokes like you and me who just walked out of their normal lives to defend our country.

Yeah man too right. There wasn't much between the Japanese and mainland Australia if Kokoda was taken. Undermanned, under resourced and outgunned they held on. Those blokes are bloody real legends.

[BulldogBelle]

Yeah man too right. There wasn't much between the Japanese and mainland Australia if Kokoda was taken. Undermanned, under resourced and outgunned they held on. Those blokes are bloody real legends.

The Choco's, they were supposed to melt in the sun, while holding back the Japanese until the AIF arrived.
For untrained soldiers who were there to prepare for the AIF they did their country proud.

[Twodogs]

Yeah man too right. There wasn't much between the Japanese and mainland Australia if Kokoda was taken. Undermanned, under resourced and outgunned they held on. Those blokes are bloody real legends.

Sometimes you can surprise yourself but I don't think I could have done what those blokes did.

[bornadog]

Titus O'Reily ‏@TitusOReily 11 hours ago
I want to congratulate Channel Seven for not interrupting My Kitchen Rules with the Last Post.

[hujsh]

Titus O'Reily ‏@TitusOReily 11 hours ago
I want to congratulate Channel Seven for not interrupting My Kitchen Rules with the Last Post.

Well THAT would be a travesty

[1eyedog]

Sometimes you can surprise yourself but I don't think I could have done what those blokes did.

I'd have a better chance of doing that than holding 3 feet of steel standing on a mound while heavy horse ran over me at Hastings! Blow that.

[Twodogs]

I'd have a better chance of doing that than holding 3 feet of steel standing on a mound while heavy horse ran over me at Hastings! Blow that.

Now I know I couldn't have done that. I'd have freaked out at the first hoofbeat.

[Daughter of the West]

I was listening to the Stupidly Small podcast the other day, and they touched on these themes. One of the presenters grandfather and grandmother both served New Zealand in WW1, and it changed the course of their lives and almost broke them as people as a result of the trauma. They had zero interested in being "celebrated" as a part of ANZAC Day, saw the war as a great big, bloody mess (literally) and never wished to speak of it again. They also thought the "birth of a nation" narrative was rubbish too. Perhaps the only thing they wanted was for people to learn and be reminded not to do it again - stupid waste of lives in both deaths and mental illness, particularly cruising into other countries conflict. That lesson doesn't appear to have been heeded...

I think this was the podcast http://www.stupidlybig.com/episodes/...wction-results