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  1. #76
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    This is a good discussion but there's a bunch of questionable assumptions going into it

    1. They are fixable
    2. We want to fix them
    3. They need fixing

    Look at the timing of this discussion, their onfield performance has gotten worse as the season as progressed, after winning 3 of their first 4 and losing the 4th by a point. Typical of a young side. Player retention is an issue but Brisbane & GWS have had the same problem, even Sydney had a COLA introduced to combat that - only they got too good and we had to take it off them again

    Give them their COLA to help recruit & keep their players and give them time
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

    Formerly gogriff

  2. #77
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by boydogs View Post
    This is a good discussion but there's a bunch of questionable assumptions going into it

    1. They are fixable
    2. We want to fix them
    3. They need fixing

    Look at the timing of this discussion, their onfield performance has gotten worse as the season as progressed, after winning 3 of their first 4 and losing the 4th by a point. Typical of a young side. Player retention is an issue but Brisbane & GWS have had the same problem, even Sydney had a COLA introduced to combat that - only they got too good and we had to take it off them again

    Give them their COLA to help recruit & keep their players and give them time
    I don't think we have any choice but to double the efforts to make them more viable
    No more short term dubious fixes, no more franchise player deals like Ablett
    Give them extra dollars to fund genuine player retention and additional coaching resources to develop the talent they draft
    Give then some end of first round picks for 3 consecutive years and access to pre list maybe two state league players for 3 years

    I remain convinced that if Brisbane can be turned around so can the Suns
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  4. #78
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    The AFEL have to do something now. Outside of the Essendon year ban from WADA, and initial years of start up franchises, they're about to register the worst percentage since Fitzroy were killed/merged. It's starting to get serious, and the cocaine culture with Crossly now shows its alive and well. Plus several good players still look to be on the out soon. I still struggle to believe we lost at home to them. Anyhoo, the AFEL can't allow this to continue so give them a handout or end them. But it's starting to really stink. I'm willing to even entertain end of first round compo (must be traded) and extra cap. Let them target a Mitch a Wallis type of on field and off field leader and give them the money to make it worth their while. I'm also happy to see the back of them. I'm still not sure this franchise can turn things around.

    Edit: Checked ladder. Nearly 2,000 points against with 9 quarters left in the season!
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  5. #79
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Agree them leaving the league is now beyond untenable - but how did the AFL expect them to ever be successful with how they setup their entrance to the league?

    It was only 2 years ago they got genuine AFL standard training and meeting facilities. Until then they had school portables which were up to 45 degrees during 30+ days for meetings. Their aqua training facilities were a 40 minute drive away from the ground they trained on which meant you often had significant travel time for players. It was pathetic.

    Amongst all that they had the weight of being “gifted” draft picks and extra money to establish which carried a bunch of expectations which were impossible to meet.

    Despite this, more than happy to gut their superstars for our line up.

  6. #80
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by AshMac View Post
    Agree them leaving the league is now beyond untenable - but how did the AFL expect them to ever be successful with how they setup their entrance to the league?

    It was only 2 years ago they got genuine AFL standard training and meeting facilities. Until then they had school portables which were up to 45 degrees during 30+ days for meetings. Their aqua training facilities were a 40 minute drive away from the ground they trained on which meant you often had significant travel time for players. It was pathetic.

    Amongst all that they had the weight of being “gifted” draft picks and extra money to establish which carried a bunch of expectations which were impossible to meet.

    Despite this, more than happy to gut their superstars for our line up.
    Even then, their concessions were not as generous as those afforded to GWS. Among other factors, they didn't have the benefit of trading out mini draft selections. These yielded GWS an extra 5 first round picks over 2 years.

  7. #81
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Got given the keys to a premiership: (trade radio)

    Suns will have picks 1 & 20 compo:

    •Pick #1 and first pick of the second round (currently pick #20) in the 2019 NAB AFL Draft.
    •Mid-first round pick (currently pick #11) in the 2020 NAB AFL Draft.
    •First pick of the second round (currently pick #19) in the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.

    The Suns will also receive expanded academy player access for 3 years including:
    •Provision of the Darwin region as an academy zone.
    •Ability to pre-sign Gold Coast SUNS academy players (including those from Darwin) without bidding.
    •Increased rookie list, up to 10 players

    ........

    I still feel Northern Australia Suns is a strong chance. Essentially having Darwin as a linked region. Plus their work with the NT government about working together and commitment to Cairns.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  9. #82
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    It's a great start to make them more competitive. I'm OK with what the AFL has put forward and see it as a positive.

    They desperately need two more development coaches to make sure the top end talent receives good coaching

    They will also trade some of those picks so it's a potential opportunity for us
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  10. #83
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Thank **** we won a flag in 2016 and are ready to contend again. You would hate to be supporting a team in that limbo phase like Saints/North/Adelaide with another lowly team having such a leg up.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  11. #84
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Got given the keys to a premiership: (trade radio)

    Suns will have picks 1 & 20 compo:

    •Pick #1 and first pick of the second round (currently pick #20) in the 2019 NAB AFL Draft.
    •Mid-first round pick (currently pick #11) in the 2020 NAB AFL Draft.
    •First pick of the second round (currently pick #19) in the 2021 NAB AFL Draft.

    The Suns will also receive expanded academy player access for 3 years including:
    •Provision of the Darwin region as an academy zone.
    •Ability to pre-sign Gold Coast SUNS academy players (including those from Darwin) without bidding.
    •Increased rookie list, up to 10 players

    ........

    I still feel Northern Australia Suns is a strong chance. Essentially having Darwin as a linked region. Plus their work with the NT government about working together and commitment to Cairns.
    C'on BT Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.
    It always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela

  12. #85
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by choconmientay View Post
    C'on BT Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.
    I agree, BT - clocks ticking...
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  13. #86
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Yep, pretty flat if you are North, Melbourne or the Saints. Struggling to lure big names, over paying for the likes of Polec, Hanneberry and Tomlinson just to get someone in, and then screwed on picks.

  14. #87
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    I still do not like them having pick 1,2 and 20.
    They can get as many kids as they like, but until they solve for the reason they're all leaving, that's precisely what will keep happening, and the Tigers, Hawks, Bombers, and Pies will keep trading for them every 2 or so years as they come out of contract.

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  16. #88
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    I still do not like them having pick 1,2 and 20.
    They can get as many kids as they like, but until they solve for the reason they're all leaving, that's precisely what will keep happening, and the Tigers, Hawks, Bombers, and Pies will keep trading for them every 2 or so years as they come out of contract.
    They need salary cap concessions - an extra mill a year for 3-5 years to retain and consolidate their list, build a culture and set themselves up for the future.

    Richmond are just licking their lips at this news.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  17. #89
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by choconmientay View Post
    C'on BT Where is the detailed analysis of what is the flow-on impact to us this year and 2020.
    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    I agree, BT - clocks ticking...
    I'll use old material, which could be more likely now.

    Say they have pick 3 & 11 next year. Say we have pick 14. Trade that to GCS for their 2020 2nd, 3rd & 4th's exchange. Which is even more likely as they hit next year's draft with three 1st rounders. Great result for them.

    GCS: 3, 11, 14
    Dogs: 21, 32, 39, 50, 57 = 2,363 points from trading with GCS & if we can get Freo 2020 2nd - circa 677 = 3,040 draft points which is a very strong position for us

    A later pick this year would be nice if we wanted one. Pick 56 or 75.

    The trade last year between GCS & Brisbane is: Pick 14 to GCS - for - Pick 19, Pick 19 & Pick 46 to Brisbane. (Futures obviously involved)

    So Pick 14 to GCS - for - Picks 21, 39 & 57 (and something later this year they won't use) is still a fair bit under that trade above.

    With lots of picks and not having to worry about points, they could be an ideal draft points trading partner for our priority access kids next year.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  19. #90
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    Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    They need salary cap concessions - an extra mill a year for 3-5 years to retain and consolidate their list, build a culture and set themselves up for the future.

    Richmond are just licking their lips at this news.
    They need to take a leaf out of Brisbane's book. They were losing young players left, right, and centre only a few years ago. They lost Docherty, Yeo, Longer, Polec, Crisp...maybe another...
    Now they've got players queuing up to come and play there. AFL didn't give them any extra picks. They forced them to analyse what they were doing wrong and fix it.

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