Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

[soupman]

This is a bit of a reset opportunity, and they should really try to take the good bits from the GWS model.

They should target 2-3 good young guys at other clubs who a) want to be there ($$$ is obviously the easiest way to get them interested but they need to really entrench them in the club like GWS did with Ward and Davis), and b) can facilitate the clubs growth. They may already have one at the club in Swallow, may snag another this year in Crouch, so really only need a couple of other standard bearers who can carry them a bit.

They shouldn't be scared of overpaying in trades, the Weller trade for all the mockery looks fine. Weller has been good for them so far, Ballard has heaps of potential and Brayshaw probably would have left a couple of years in anyway, and doesn't really look elite for mine.

[bornadog]

This is a bit of a reset opportunity, and they should really try to take the good bits from the GWS model.

They should target 2-3 good young guys at other clubs who a) want to be there ($$$ is obviously the easiest way to get them interested but they need to really entrench them in the club like GWS did with Ward and Davis), and b) can facilitate the clubs growth. They may already have one at the club in Swallow, may snag another this year in Crouch, so really only need a couple of other standard bearers who can carry them a bit.

They shouldn't be scared of overpaying in trades, the Weller trade for all the mockery looks fine. Weller has been good for them so far, Ballard has heaps of potential and Brayshaw probably would have left a couple of years in anyway, and doesn't really look elite for mine.

Apparently they are going to target players around mid 20's ie those in the middle of their career instead of hasbeens that are looking for more money but ion their final years. I think that is a good move.

[choconmientay]

I'll use old material, which could be more likely now.

Say they have pick 3 & 11 next year. Say we have pick 14. Trade that to GCS for their 2020 2nd, 3rd & 4th's exchange. Which is even more likely as they hit next year's draft with three 1st rounders. Great result for them.

GCS: 3, 11, 14
Dogs: 21, 32, 39, 50, 57 = 2,363 points from trading with GCS & if we can get Freo 2020 2nd - circa 677 = 3,040 draft points which is a very strong position for us

A later pick this year would be nice if we wanted one. Pick 56 or 75.

The trade last year between GCS & Brisbane is: Pick 14 to GCS - for - Pick 19, Pick 19 & Pick 46 to Brisbane. (Futures obviously involved)

So Pick 14 to GCS - for - Picks 21, 39 & 57 (and something later this year they won't use) is still a fair bit under that trade above.

With lots of picks and not having to worry about points, they could be an ideal draft points trading partner for our priority access kids next year.

Apparently they are going to target players around mid 20's ie those in the middle of their career instead of hasbeens that are looking for more money but ion their final years. I think that is a good move.

Can you look into working something out, sending Jong/Roberts/Lynch to the GC for next years picks and free up list spots for this year? Jong has been linked to them in the past. Fletcher has got Premiership experience and should have some currency. Lynch doesn't seem to be able to break into the main team and may have more opportunity with them?

[bornadog]

Tom Morris reporting - Hugh Greenwood will play for Gold Coast next year.

[bulldogtragic]

Can you look into working something out, sending Jong/Roberts/Lynch to the GC for next years picks and free up list spots for this year? Jong has been linked to them in the past. Fletcher has got Premiership experience and should have some currency. Lynch doesn't seem to be able to break into the main team and may have more opportunity with them?

There was a media report a couple of weeks ago saying Essendon & GCS had some interest in him as a cheap, free agent KPD.

[GVGjr]

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

I wasn't too far off the mark with this plan and the AFL has actually gone a lot harder at addressing their challenges

I hope the Suns are given access to some additional development coaches to work with the new arrivals

[bornadog]

Gordon to AFL: Please explain Suns decision


Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon is calling on the AFL to explain how its unprecedented package of help to Gold Coast will assist the Suns in the short term, suggesting that the league should have forced the club to trade early picks for experienced players.


While responses were mixed, several clubs were left privately fuming after the league unveiled its extraordinary assistance package for the expansion club, which contains a suite of draft and list concessions.

The Suns will get a priority pick, giving them selections one and two in the national draft this year plus an extra at the start of the 2019 second round.


They will get a pick in the middle of the first round in 2020 – currently pick 11 – and a pick at the start of the second round in 2021.


The assistance package means certain No.1 pick Matt Rowell in this year's national draft is all but assured of being joined at the Suns by his Carey Grammar school mate and close friend Noah Anderson, as a likely No.2 pick.


In effect, picks 2 and 20 this year, pick 11 next year and pick 19 the year after, are headed for the Suns, subject to other compensation picks for free agency.


The arrangement is more generous than rival clubs had expected. The AFL's package is a response to the club's dismal on-field results, its ongoing challenges in keeping top players such as Tom Lynch, who left as a free agent last year and has just helped Richmond premiership, along with Dion Prestia (Richmond), Jaeger O'Meara (Hawthorn) and Gary Ablett (Geelong).


Even this year, as the Suns have shown signs of improvement under coach Stewart Dew, they are still set to lose Jack Martin, who wants to join Carlton and Callum Ah Chee, who has asked for a trade to the Brisbane Lions.


Gordon told The Age that the league had a responsibility to further clarify its decisions.


"I think the AFL ought to explain how the steps it has announced will assist competitive balance for the Suns in 2020 and 2021," Gordon said.


"For me, it would have made more sense to provide those picks but to also oblige the Suns to trade those picks for quality mature and experienced players ... which is what they seem to lack and explains why their season tailed off so badly.


"The steps they've taken seem to me to be doing more of the same but expecting a different result. You'd hope these matters actually get discussed at Commission meetings."

Gold Coast chief executive Mark Evans said the Suns were open to using their future picks as trade bait: "It's certainly an option," he said.


"[Recruiting manager] Craig Cameron would kill me if I didn't say, we're open for business.


"If someone wants those picks, come after them hard."


But Evans said he doubted the Suns would trade away this year's top draft picks.


"The AFL Commission have not imposed any restriction on what we do with those selections," Evans said. "They could be traded, but I would imagine picks one and picks two would be hard to prise out of our hands."


Adelaide, who received Carlton's first-round pick via a draft-night trade last year, were among the losers from the package, slipping from pick No.4 to No.5 this year. The Crows had made a submission to the AFL arguing that it would be unfair for a priority pick to be awarded given clubs had dealt future picks last year.


The Suns found an ally in the form of Sydney chairman Andrew Pridham, who supported the AFL measures.


"I think they need help and it's good to see that the AFL Commission has recognised that in a meaningful way," Pridham told The Age.

"Each of the Northern State clubs have their unique challenges/disadvantages. The player access package for the Gold Coast is just part of the picture.


"I believe that it is time for a detailed review of the Northern States business model – on-field and off-field. The ever-present player and coach go home factor is real and significant as are the unique financial pressures faced by clubs in the non-traditional football states.”


The Suns had asked for a salary cap allowance to help address their retention problem, but AFL boss Gillon McLachlan, has a strong view that salary caps should not be compromised.


AFL general counsel Andrew Dillon said a three-year assistance package was needed for a sustainable solution to the Gold Coast's challenges.


"It really gives them that ability now to draft two high-end players and give them that ability to build, but it was debated strongly," Dillon said.


Under the assistance deal, aimed at lifting the struggling club, the AFL will also allow the Suns to simply list their academy players without bidding. In effect, they can simply list the players from their academy zone without going through the draft. This means the likes of Connor Budarick – rated as prospective third-round pick this year – as well as talented bottom-ager Alex Davies (2020 draft) and under-16 All-Australian Austin Harris (2021) could also be added to the Suns' list without the club paying a price in the draft.


As part of the package, the Suns' academy zone now includes Darwin, which will allow Gold Coast to acquire NT prospect Malcolm Rosas this year.


The Suns will also get access to up to 10 rookies. The package is subject to review in years two and three.

[bornadog]

Nine years of early draft picks and they can't get it right

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Even then, their concessions were not as generous as those afforded to GWS. Among other factors, they didn't have the benefit of trading out mini draft selections. These yielded GWS an extra 5 first round picks over 2 years.

The concessions handed out to GWS has been far more generous than that afforded to GCS, with $80 million given to GWS in its first 2 years to establish a second Club in Sydney. Amazing to think that St Kilda has won one flag in over 100 years and the WB two only in 90 years and yet GWS has figured in the past 4 final series including this year’s GF.
The Gold Coast continues to be a basket case with quality players like Lynch and Prestia happy to move on after the mandatory two years. The AFL is happy for this fiasco to continue because it is happy to prop up GCS in order to protect its multi millions National Television Sponsorship. Sydney has a far greater attraction with the Sydney Swans now a strong well established Club and GWS being able to attract the likes of Ward Davis Shaw Mumford Deledio Griffen etc combined with the best young talent in the competition even though they continue to lose many of this young talent to strong Melbourne based Clubs to then be replaced by equally talented young players through draft concessions. Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

[AndrewP6]

The concessions handed out to GWS has been far more generous than that afforded to GCS, with $80 million given to GWS in its first 2 years to establish a second Club in Sydney. Amazing to think that St Kilda has won one flag in over 100 years and the WB two only in 90 years and yet GWS has figured in the past 4 final series including this year’s GF.
The Gold Coast continues to be a basket case with quality players like Lynch and Prestia happy to move on after the mandatory two years. The AFL is happy for this fiasco to continue because it is happy to prop up GCS in order to protect its multi millions National Television Sponsorship. Sydney has a far greater attraction with the Sydney Swans now a strong well established Club and GWS being able to attract the likes of Ward Davis Shaw Mumford Deledio Griffen etc combined with the best young talent in the competition even though they continue to lose many of this young talent to strong Melbourne based Clubs to then be replaced by equally talented young players through draft concessions. Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

I work with Mitch Riordan's mum. He is happy at the moment, wonder how long it will last?

[Doc26]

Given the current hopeless arrangement you wouldn’t want your own son drafted to the Gold Coast Suns.

I certainly wouldn’t be keen on that either.

[jeemak]

This is a post I posted in another thread.....

The silly thing is the AFEL didn't offer an incentive to assist GCS to the other clubs in any way as far as I can tell.

Seriously, if you want to get people on board you need to show what is in it for them. With this deal all there is as far as I can see if punishment for the mismanagement of a league created entity.

It's clear GCS needs experience in solid players, but they aren't going to get them unless they pay overs - which they can't do - or if they give up incentives to other clubs to hand them over, which they can if the AFEL was smart enough.

This is just another botched attempt from the AFEL to paper over the cracks that have been getting bigger and bigger since they rushed the implementation of this club into the competition. The truth is, they set up a façade of a club and didn't take care of anything across the back end, and now they're suffering for it. Setting up a club is a process, and anyone with any understanding of process knows that shit in equals shit out, especially when capacity is constrained (facilities, personnel, etc.). The thing about process is that quality inputs don't equal correct inputs (Ablett....etc.), the inputs need to be matched to the circumstances and right from the start the AFEL got it wrong with GCS.

Anyway, probably the wrong thread...…..

[jeemak]

Remember this is the same type of thing that happened with GWS but is a lite version of it.

The AFL complained that they couldn't control the GWS drafting and trading process and this resulted in a prolonged period of GWS being uncompetitive but always with a bright future ahead. In the end, GWS had a huge advantage to become competitive, and it's resulted in a grand final appearance after consistent finals showings.

They didn't do the same for GCS, and now it seems they're playing a similar card. Stuff the rest of the competition, do what you want and everyone else will pick up the tab.

[GVGjr]

I think the AFL's response to the GCS position is an admission of guilt and how poorly the club has been run.
It's also clear they aren't going to let it die or be uncompetitive going forward

It will be interesting to see if they can get their act in order

[Rocco Jones]

I would have moved them to Tassie (or just kill them off and start a team there) but failing that, kind of starting again is the only other option. I would have liked something a bit more geared to getting senior players but that's really hard and lends itself to being exploited by other clubs i.e. all but actively trying to get senior players to leave with compo being an actual reward.

I actually really like the link to Darwin and would like to see them becoming the North Australian Suns or the like.

This though, must be the final roll of the dice. If they still have players leaving in five years and are a mess, they need to go.