2012 Brownlow Medal to go to Sam Mitchell and Trent Cotchin

[Twodogs]

There is far too much over-complication of the situation. Games were played throughout 2012 and players polled Brownlow votes, as happens every year. Some players were then subsequently found guilty of doping, so any votes these players polled simply have an asterisk next to them. That makes Cotchin and Mitchell worthy 2012 Brownlow Medalists. For once the AFEL has made a good and balanced decision throughout this sorry saga.

I've heard thus argument a lot on the radio but I don't think I quite understand it. Is it, if Jobe gives up his Brownlow that means all of his Brownlow votes are void. And by logical extension all 34 of his drug crazed teammates' votes are void in 2012 as well? This manipulates the voting so much that the winner could well be someone other than Mitchell or Cothchin? We don't know, we just don't know, so we shouldn't re-award the medal to anyone and just have an asterisk in place of anyone in the 'winner' colomn of the 2012 Brownlow medal.

Does tgat sound about right?

[Sedat]

I've heard thus argument a lot on the radio but I don't think I quite understand it. Is it, if Jobe gives up his Brownlow that means all of his Brownlow votes are void. And by logical extension all 34 of his drug crazed teammates' votes are void in 2012 as well? This manipulates the voting so much that the winner could well be someone other than Mitchell or Cothchin? We don't know, we just don't know, so we shouldn't re-award the medal to anyone and just have an asterisk in place of anyone in the 'winner' colomn of the 2012 Brownlow medal.

Does tgat sound about right?

Why are they void? The AFEL made the ruling on Jobe not being eligible for the Brownlow - the whole 'Jobe handed back the Brownlow' was nothing more than PR. His votes in 2012 count as votes but he is treated like any other suspended player. Therefore the next best vote getters win the Brownlow.

[AndrewP6]

Why are they void? The AFEL made the ruling on Jobe not being eligible for the Brownlow - the whole 'Jobe handed back the Brownlow' was nothing more than PR. His votes in 2012 count as votes but he is treated like any other suspended player. Therefore the next best vote getters win the Brownlow.

They should be void, because those players have committed doping violations.

[Doc26]

Do we take Watsons votes out and move every player that got 2 or 1 votes in those games he polled in and reallocate those votes?

......I don't mind Mitchell or Cotchin but did they really win it?

If the AFL are adamant in reassigning the Brownlow, your suggestion is the more accurate measure.

The problem with this approach is we won't know who was next in line for a 1 vote in the games where Jobe polled.

[Twodogs]

Why are they void? The AFEL made the ruling on Jobe not being eligible for the Brownlow - the whole 'Jobe handed back the Brownlow' was nothing more than PR. His votes in 2012 count as votes but he is treated like any other suspended player. Therefore the next best vote getters win the Brownlow.

I think I misunderstood the argument. What GVR says about reallocating 3 votes makes more sense.

[Topdog]

If the AFL are adamant in reassigning the Brownlow, your suggestion is the more accurate measure.

The problem with this approach is we won't know who was next in line for a 1 vote in the games where Jobe polled.

The other problem is pretty much every player from Essendon that polled in the Brownlow that year was found guilty. Its a lot more than Jobe's votes.

[Doc26]

The other problem is pretty much every player from Essendon that polled in the Brownlow that year was found guilty. Its a lot more than Jobe's votes.

Yes you're absolutely correct TD. AFL would need to reallocate votes to the top 3 non Essendon players, which the umpires would not record anyway. And a reasonable argument could be raised that they don't reassign votes after a vote scoring player has been suspended at the tribunal for a game day incident.

Slightly off topic but I have a similar issue to their games still recorded as Won for the 2012 season. They should be reassigned to the losing team for historical purposes.

The AFL are really asleep at the wheel here in addressing the anomalies that have resulted in Essendon's conviction for 2012.

[Twodogs]

Yes you're absolutely correct TD. AFL would need to reallocate votes to the top 3 non Essendon players, which the umpires would not record anyway. And a reasonable argument could be raised that they don't reassign votes after a vote scoring player has been suspended at the tribunal for a game day incident.

Slightly off topic but I have a similar issue to their games still recorded as Won for the 2012 season. They should be reassigned to the losing team for historical purposes.

The AFL are really asleep at the wheel here in addressing the anomalies that have resulted in Essendon's conviction for 2012

The AFEL have shown many times that they have little interest in official records with a "whatever" attitude to the allocation and recording of games played and goals kicked.

Look at when Malthouse went past McHale's coaching record. For 65 years McHale coached 714 games but as Malthouse approached the mark someone decided that McHale had only coached 713 games. How can a figure be right for 65 years and then it's wrong all of a sudden two days before someone else breaks it. Or levels it.

[GVGjr]

I guess the only to fairly do this would be to rule out all votes in games against Essendon that year.

[Doc26]

I guess the only to fairly do this would be to rule out all votes in games against Essendon that year.

Given this scenario Mitchell should be the outright winner given that with the 3 games played between Ess / Haw & Richmond in that season Cotchin's tally was 3 votes and Mitchell 2.

Round 8:
Essendon 19.14 (128) Richmond 15.19 (109) at MCG
3. B Deledio (Rich)
2. B Stanton (Ess)
1. J Watson (Ess)

Round 18:
Essendon 12.14 (86) Hawthorn 27.18 (180) at ES
3. C Rioli (Haw)
2. S Mitchell (Haw)
1. M Suckling (Haw)

Round 22:
Richmond 13.24 (102) Essendon 8.9 (57) at MCG
3. T Cotchin (Rich)
2. S Tuck (Rich)
1. B Deledio (Rich)

[Sedat]

Sam Mitchell currently being interviewed at his 2012 Brownlow Medal presentation - he recalled a story when he was at Eastern Rangers U18's in 1999 and the assistant coach of the team would, off his own bat, take Mitchell to AFL games to watch the likes of Brett Ratten and how they operate in stoppages and clearances. That was the era of athletes over footballers but this coach lit the fuse for Mitchell to become the best AFL player he could be. The assistant coach - Simon Dalrymple.

[always right]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/afl/...13-gtalqf.html

Fairfax have an article on this today. Apparently Dalrymple is our "List manager".......hope Jason McCartney is not too upset at being punted. Fairfax have really lost their way over recent times.