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  1. #121
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t his U18 hitout numbers just as low? I wonder if he will be more like a Dean Cox around the ground ruck-rover type more than a Sandilands ruck stoppage king type. Would be nice if he could do both like a Gawn type.
    I wasn’t aware of that - could that be why he slipped in the draft? (and not just the fear of wasting early picks on young skinny tall guys)

    Without looking up stats, reckon Cox was still decent in the actual ruck contest.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pie Man View Post
    I wasn’t aware of that - could that be why he slipped in the draft? (and not just the fear of wasting early picks on young skinny tall guys)

    Without looking up stats, reckon Cox was still decent in the actual ruck contest.
    According to Fox Footy English played the majority of his junior career as a midfielder, before a growth spurt saw him grow 20 centimetres in two years. He was a ruckman by default....So he is still learning the caper.

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  4. #123
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?

  5. #124
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    According to Fox Footy English played the majority of his junior career as a midfielder, before a growth spurt saw him grow 20 centimetres in two years. He was a ruckman by default....So he is still learning the caper.
    That is a lot of centimetres!!!!
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  6. #125
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?
    Same - wondering if it’s purely timing or his vertical leap ain’t great...or a bit of both.
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  7. #126
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Say hello to the new Simon Beasley.
    "We've got to be good in the phone box, and good in the tardis" - Pearls of wisdom from Luke Beveridge.

  8. #127
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?
    This is down to guile and technique. Physics also plays a big part. Simon Madden (the greatest ruckman I’ve seen) commented that early in his career, despite being much taller, more athletic and having a better leap, simply could not get his hand on the ball at centre bounces against an ageing Sammy Newman.

    Ruckmen jump early, jump at each other and there’s plenty of nuances and technique. With that in mind, weight and bulk comes into play. English has some filling out to do and some bulk to put on.

    Despite being more know as a media performer in later years, Sam Newman was a very highly regarded ruck coach for many years. One of the scores of ruckmen he helped was our own Andrew Purser - who regularly gave up inches to his opponents, yet was rarely beaten. In fact, Madden himself sought Newman out for coaching as soon as he’d retired and says his rucking massively improved as a result.

    English is still very raw and very green.

    Finally, I clearly recall watching Grundy playing reserves when he was English’s age. Check the records, it was the day we had our break through win against the Swans in Sydney. The one Bob Murphy described at the time as the “best win ever.” Grundy was older and more physically developed than English is now, yet was still learning his craft in the VFL. Some important context, I think.

    Max Gawn’s development was a very, very similar story.

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  10. #128
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Webby View Post
    This is down to guile and technique. Physics also plays a big part. Simon Madden (the greatest ruckman I’ve seen) commented that early in his career, despite being much taller, more athletic and having a better leap, simply could not get his hand on the ball at centre bounces against an ageing Sammy Newman.

    Ruckmen jump early, jump at each other and there’s plenty of nuances and technique. With that in mind, weight and bulk comes into play. English has some filling out to do and some bulk to put on.

    Despite being more know as a media performer in later years, Sam Newman was a very highly regarded ruck coach for many years. One of the scores of ruckmen he helped was our own Andrew Purser - who regularly gave up inches to his opponents, yet was rarely beaten. In fact, Madden himself sought Newman out for coaching as soon as he’d retired and says his rucking massively improved as a result.

    English is still very raw and very green.

    Finally, I clearly recall watching Grundy playing reserves when he was English’s age. Check the records, it was the day we had our break through win against the Swans in Sydney. The one Bob Murphy described at the time as the “best win ever.” Grundy was older and more physically developed than English is now, yet was still learning his craft in the VFL. Some important context, I think.

    Max Gawn’s development was a very, very similar story.
    The ruck technique thing makes sense - I'm about 1 foot short of being a ruckman so I don't have much personal experience to draw from!

    Just on Grundy - I think I've mentioned this before but English is not all that comparable to Grundy at the same age. English was drafted as a 19 year old it must be remembered.

    That win against Sydney was in 2015 I believe, when Grundy had just turned 21 and was in the middle of putting together a 19 game season, having already played 22 games over the previous 2 seasons.

    English will be 22 in August and just played his 13th game.

    I don't think any sensible person would not give Tim plenty of allowance for his lack of age, but more importantly lack of experience and physical development. He is odds on to be an excellent ruckman but is likely to take him a little bit longer than Grundy.

    Agree that Gawn probably has more in common with English, although his early career was significantly injury affected I believe.

  11. #129
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    How do you come to the conclusion his strengths are in the forward line?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
    The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancin' Douggy View Post
    A la Paul Salmon.
    Or Luke Darcy. He was quite good early doors playing in a forward pocket and providing a few minutes relief to Scott Wynd every now and then. As a result he was ready to assume the full time ruck role by the time Wynd retired. But I'm happy to see English develop in the ruck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    He spent a fair chunk of pre-season up forward. He just seems a year or two away from being physically developed enough to take the big grabs.

    I actually think he's shown promise, although he's getting smashed in the hit outs. He's starting to find a lot of the ball and is one of our best tacklers so his second efforts are there.
    In the last couple of centre bounces on friday night English didn't leap but stayed on his feet and was first to tackle whatever Collingwood player got his hands on the ball first. It's a tactic that Bevo used whenever last year when Dunkley and Jong had to compete at centre bounces.
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  12. #130
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?
    Technique.

    I have watched him closely and he does have a good leap, but he so often mistimes his leap, fresh airs his tap or on the rare occasions he does get his hand to it, he just hits it forward and straight to the opposition.

    His ruckwork is really poor, and it gets worse as the game goes on and he gets tired of getting pantsed.

    I don't think it is helping that we are throwing him in the deep end. You are not learning when your are hopelessly out of your depth.

    It's like being a c grade cricketer and asked to play for the firsts. What possible learning do you get from that experience if it's clearly a grade too far ahead. Tim is only going to lose confidence and struggle.


    He needs some time playing for Footscray so he can hone his craft.

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  14. #131
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberdoggie View Post
    Technique.

    I have watched him closely and he does have a good leap, but he so often mistimes his leap, fresh airs his tap or on the rare occasions he does get his hand to it, he just hits it forward and straight to the opposition.

    His ruckwork is really poor, and it gets worse as the game goes on and he gets tired of getting pantsed.

    I don't think it is helping that we are throwing him in the deep end. You are not learning when your are hopelessly out of your depth.

    It's like being a c grade cricketer and asked to play for the firsts. What possible learning do you get from that experience if it's clearly a grade too far ahead. Tim is only going to lose confidence and struggle.


    He needs some time playing for Footscray so he can hone his craft.
    Quite often he seems to get his hand to the ball first but the other ruckman will then make contact with the ball (or his hand) and are able to direct it where they want it to go.

    I’ve pulled out the AFL app a few times and noted that even when the opposition ruckman are making contact with his hand that they get credited with the tap (presumably as they are being seen as having more impact on where the tap goes?).

  15. #132
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quigley at Bigfooty puts together pretty good mock drafts, he was one of the few to have English sliding into the second round.

    It's an interesting read:
    Call me old fashioned but I actually like my rucks to actually be able to ruck. Its great if they might qualify to be a C grade midfielder like English does but ultimately you want to the win the taps and English is poor in that aspect of the game. He is overaged and weak in the body and often does not even compete in the ruck contest. I usually rate rucks ahead of most people, including the AFL recruitment community, but I just am not onboard with English.
    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...kings.1152444/

  16. #133
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    Quigley at Bigfooty puts together pretty good mock drafts, he was one of the few to have English sliding into the second round.

    It's an interesting read:


    https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...kings.1152444/
    Hopefully Kingy is helping him out.

  17. #134
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    Re: Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

    Got pushed out of a marking contest early in the 1st qtr and it looked like another long day ahead.

    Which was true for other reasons - thought Tim was much better today.

    Had to find something positive...what a dirty day
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