Who would you have JMac target this year?

[jazzadogs]

The last few years have been particularly low turnovers of players and now after a poor season with a number of distractions we are putting the faith in a list that let us down. We will probably make 3 changes this year and much like in 2008 and pay for it later on.

Having two live draft picks is not the same as making three changes. It's a claim you've repeated a few times that I'm struggling to get my head around.

If we bring in Trengove, Impey and Crozier, upgrade Roarke and have two live picks then that is six changes to the list. As far as I'm aware that is around the number you're advocating.

Half of our list is 21 or under, with our two most experienced players retiring. I understand the push for the draft (and I would probably prefer using a draft pick to trading for Impey), but I don't think it can be argued that we're not turning over the list.

[GVGjr]

Having two live draft picks is not the same as making three changes. It's a claim you've repeated a few times that I'm struggling to get my head around.

If we bring in Trengove, Impey and Crozier, upgrade Roarke and have two live picks then that is six changes to the list. As far as I'm aware that is around the number you're advocating.

Half of our list is 21 or under, with our two most experienced players retiring. I understand the push for the draft (and I would probably prefer using a draft pick to trading for Impey), but I don't think it can be argued that we're not turning over the list.

It's how you assess the list and if you believe we will bounce back quickly. To me 5 changes is a reasonable starting point most years.
By the way, can we say Smith is a change to the playing list? I've never really counted rookie upgrades as changes to the list because we are really just shuffling the cards a bit.
If there were no queries on the culture and the application of some in the playing group perhaps you could just tinker around the edges but from what we know in a reasonable sense we have 5 players leaving the club, one coming in via FA and one being upgraded. That leaves 3 spots for the draft. If we acquire just one other player via a trade that leaves two live picks.

Things change if Stringer does find a home though.

[jazzadogs]

It's how you assess the list and if you believe we will bounce back quickly. To me 5 changes is a reasonable starting point most years.
By the way, can we say Smith is a change to the playing list? I've never really counted rookie upgrades as changes to the list because we are really just shuffling the cards a bit.
If there were no queries on the culture and the application of some in the playing group perhaps you could just tinker around the edges but from what we know in a reasonable sense we have 5 players leaving the club, one coming in via FA and one being upgraded. That leaves 3 spots for the draft. If we acquire just one other player via a trade that leaves two live picks.

Things change if Stringer does find a home though.

Roarke's upgrade creates a spot on the rookie list, so I would argue that it is still creating a spot.

I've said it somewhere else but if Stringer does get traded for a top 20 pick and things go as suggested above, and we only have two live picks (9 + Stringer trade) then I hope we trade our other picks for choices next year. Or package up the Stringer pick and 26 for a higher first rounder.

I have no issue with two live picks if they are both in the top 20, plus the trading in of a couple of experienced players.

[GVGjr]

Roarke's upgrade creates a spot on the rookie list, so I would argue that it is still creating a spot.

I've said it somewhere else but if Stringer does get traded for a top 20 pick and things go as suggested above, and we only have two live picks (9 + Stringer trade) then I hope we trade our other picks for choices next year. Or package up the Stringer pick and 26 for a higher first rounder.

I have no issue with two live picks if they are both in the top 20, plus the trading in of a couple of experienced players.

Can I ask why you believe 2 live picks is enough given how poorly we performed?

To me we need to get new players in, new players with positive attitudes and a willingness to work and I don't believe 2 will be anywhere near enough. We also need to put in a better structure to help them thrive and develop.

[jazzadogs]

Can I ask why you believe 2 live picks is enough given how poorly we performed?

To me we need to get new players in, new players with positive attitudes and a willingness to work and I don't believe 2 will be anywhere near enough. We also need to put in a better structure to help them thrive and develop.

2 live picks in the draft, plus Roarke onto the senior list (creating 2 live rookie selections), plus Trengove + Crozier is a good start. I would prefer to have another live pick than chase Impey.

As it was laid out by someone earlier, 1st ND pick (Murphy), 2nd ND pick (Boyd), Trengove (Hamilton), Crozier (Stringer), Roarke (likely Honeychurch), ?extra ND pick or Impey (?Crameri/Campbell/other). + 2x rookie picks (Smith and Prudden).

That's enough changes for me. The Tigers came from 13th last year - we won a flag two years ago - 5-6 changes to the list is a more than acceptable option, backing in those on our list to return to the form that made us the best team in the comp 12 months ago.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In my eyes we should be adding 4 kids every year and see no reason why this year should be different

I suspect this and the uncertainty of who is coming in is why th futures of Honeychurch, Crameri and Smith aren't yet clear

Every year there are outstanding rookie picks so I never believe that there aren't 80 amazing prospects in the u18s or state leagues

[macca]

We need to find a :
Nathan Broad/Astbury/ Luke Ryan type as backline player
Jack Graham / Dan Butler small forward

Disenchanted ruck like Nankervis !

We need to be brave with cutting the list. Hamilton staying last year we missed out one of those type of players

[GVGjr]

We need to find a :
Nathan Broad/Astbury/ Luke Ryan type as backline player
Jack Graham / Dan Butler small forward

Disenchanted ruck like Nankervis !

We need to be brave with cutting the list. Hamilton staying last year we missed out one of those type of players

Broad and Ryan came from the state leagues with late picks and we probably did that with Marcus Adams albeit not a late pick. It's not a bad option

Astbury is just a tall defender who got better over the last two years.

Graham was a highly rated leader from the SA U18 side and highlights the value of getting quality youngsters into the side. Butler was a late pick.

Nankervis was a solid trade.

Richmonds success this year shows the value of or how drafting, trading and development compliment a good coach.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

[GVGjr]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

Agreed, we need to have that strong approach to list management. You can carry a player or two after a good season but not after the one we had.

[ledge]

Agreed, we need to have that strong approach to list management. You can carry a player or two after a good season but not after the one we had.

I guess it comes to the question are their better players that we can get, no good delisting or trading players if you can't get better than they are.

[GVGjr]

If we are to back the list as many are suggesting and take just 2 live picks into the draft should we shop pick 9 around as the centerpiece of acquiring the best possible player like Gaff or even someone like Saad?

[ratsmac]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

Yep, genuine list cloggers. We have to be more diligent in identifying if they actually have what it takes to make a regular AFL player. If not cut our loses early before we invest too much into them.

[Ghost Dog]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

Oh boy. Mulligan, Hooper - the very mention of those names makes me laugh.

[Topdog]

If we are to back the list as many are suggesting and take just 2 live picks into the draft should we shop pick 9 around as the centerpiece of acquiring the best possible player like Gaff or even someone like Saad?

Bring in 3 players by trade and free agency along with 2 live picks is still a turnover of at least 5 players. How many new players are needed to refresh the list in your opinion?