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  1. #1
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    Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Reading through the Tory Dickson thread I came across this: (BTW, where are you Desi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Desipura View Post
    Interesting to see who will become the better player Crozier or Clay Smith. Especially given B Mac wanted Smith and the recruiting guys wanted Crozier.
    It sounds like Crozier has the potential to become an A grader however needs to put in alot of work in the gym. I have read there are queries on his desire/intensity, he can often go in and out of games. Prefers to take a hanger than provide multiple leads to the kicker.

    Smith is probably the safer bet in terms of being able to get the best out of himself. Has been reported that he hunts the ball even if he is outnumbered, hits the man hard and will do everything possible to become an AFL footballer. (Hopefully he can address his kicking) Probably does not have the upside of a Crozier but as I said previously perhaps a safer bet? What do you think?
    That got me thinking, did we make the right decision at the time? Who would you prefer now in hindsight?

    Here is a comparison of the players, and let's forget Clay ahs had 3 knee reco's.

    Player Statistics Comparison
    Clay Smith Name Hayden Crozier
    Western Bulldogs Team Fremantle Dockers
    Forward Position Defender
    48 Career Games 52
    Gippsland Power Origin Eastern Ranges
    May 11, 1993 Date of Birth December 24, 1993
    23yr 11mth Age 23yr 3mth
    182cm Height 185cm
    83kg Weight 83kg
    2011 National Draft Last Drafted In 2011 National Draft
    Round 1, Pick #17 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #20
    Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By Fremantle Dockers
    Career Stats for Season Career
    48 Games 52
    8.1 Kicks Per Game 8.3
    6.0 Handballs Per Game 4.0
    14.1 Disposals Per Game 12.2
    3.0 Marks Per Game 3.6
    0.7 Goals Per Game 0.7
    0.5 Behinds Per Game 0.4
    5.0 Tackles Per Game 2.8
    0.1 Hitouts Per Game 0
    2.5 Inside 50s Per Game 2.1
    0.2 Goal Assists Per Game 0.2
    0.9 Frees For Per Game 0.7
    1.3 Frees Against Per Game 0.4
    6.2 Contested Possessions Per Game 3.9
    7.8 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 8.3
    9.2 Effective Disposals Per Game 9.0
    65.2% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 73.8%
    2.7 Clangers Per Game 1.3
    0.1 Contested Marks Per Game 0.3
    0.5 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 0.3
    1.9 Clearances Per Game 0.5
    0.8 Rebound 50s Per Game 1.3
    1.2 One Percenters Per Game 0.9
    0.2 Bounces Per Game 0.2
    70.4 Time On Ground % Per Game 70.2
    Premierships: SENIORS - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, 2014, 2016 . AFL 1954, 2016. RESERVES - 1938, 1945, 1962, 1988, 1994, 1998. UNDER 19S - 1954. Other Premierships - Championship of Victoria 1924. VFL Night Series 1963-64, 1967, 1970. Preseason Cup, 2010.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    You can't take into consideration the knee injuries as it is purely subjective as to whether they have held him back or made him even more determined.

    They are such different players it's difficult to make a comparison. Whilst Smith is less skilful, one of the major criticisms was his kicking which he has improved dramatically. The knock on Crozier was his application and whilst there have been promising signs in recent weeks, he has yet to show the required improvement to make any long term judgement.

    At this stage McCartney made the right call.
    I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken.

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  5. #3
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Clay Smith being best on ground and kicking 4 goals in a prelim kind of makes it hard for Crozier to ever be in front in my eyes, in that comparison!
    The Western Bulldogs.....shortest premiership drought in the league.

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  7. #4
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozza View Post
    Clay Smith being best on ground and kicking 4 goals in a prelim kind of makes it hard for Crozier to ever be in front in my eyes, in that comparison!
    Well said.
    Matty Boyd Career Highlights:

    Club Captain: 2011-2013 - Night Premiership Side: 2010 - Premiership side: 2016 - Charles Sutton Medal: 2009, 2011, 2012 - All Australian team: 2009, 2011, 2016 - Best Team Player: 2016 - Coaches Award: 2015 - Match Committee Award: 2007 - International Rules Series: 2008, 2010 - AFL Life Member - Western Bulldogs Life Member - Record Games Played by a Rookie - 8th Most Games Played for Footscray/Western Bulldogs - 66th Most Goals Kicked for Footscray Western Bulldogs - Most Finals Won by any Footscray/Western Bulldogs Player - Brownlow Votes: 108

    Bob Murphy Career Highlights:

    Club Captain: 2015-2017 - Night Premiership Side: 2010 - All Australian team: 2011 & 2015 as Captain - AFLPA Best Captain 2015 - Rising Star Nominee & Most Promising player: 2001 - Best Team Player: 2003 - Runner Up, Charles Sutton Medal: 2011 & 2015 - International Rules Series: 2002, 2003 - AFL Life Member - Western Bulldogs Life Member - 6th Most Games Played for Footscray/Western Bulldogs - 27th Most Goals Kicked for Footscray/Western Bulldogs - Club Captain of Western Bulldogs in Premiership Year: 2016 - Brownlow Votes: 51

  8. #5
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Quote Originally Posted by always right View Post
    You can't take into consideration the knee injuries as it is purely subjective as to whether they have held him back or made him even more determined.
    Seems unlikely given everything that's ever been said about him.

    No doubt he'd have played far more games if he'd been fit his entire time at the club and his finals performances were a perfect demonstration of his value

  9. #6
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Who knows it depends on development too . Our development is very good so we will never know what Crozier could have been with us.
    Bring back the biff

  10. #7
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Take out Clay's 3 knee Reco's and he'd be around the 100 game mark.
    Clay every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.
    ''Dogs are Talking''- The Angels

  11. #8
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    I was kind of hoping that Crozier would have another year in and out of the Freo team because I think he would have been a terrific moneyball selection on the cheap. He looks like he's turned the corner off an admittedly small sample size in the last couple of weeks. I do love his skillset.

    Clay's finals series last year immortalises him as a Bulldog legend. Whatever happens in the future, he was a vital part of our September campaign and will always justify the decision to select him.
    "You've got no fear of The Underdog, that's why you will not survive"
    - Spoon, 2007
    - Western Bulldogs, 2016

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  13. #9
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    First answer: I'm pretty sure Desi was given a permanent holiday.

    Second answer: they're both excellent players, and I'll always be grateful for Clay's contribution last September.

  14. #10
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Yeah Crozier only being 4 games ahead of Clay despite 3 ACL's is pretty decisive

    Can't believe Clay hasn't made it to 50 games yet
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

    Formerly gogriff

  15. #11
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Crozier needs the ball in his hands to impact the contest, Smith doesn't.
    That puts Clay ahead for me.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  17. #12
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Entirely different types of players. I love Clay but his career may be a short one.

  18. #13
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Clay's best is a manifestation of what we as fans love/want to identify about Footscray's footballing identity. It is hard, tough, determined and ruthless physically as well as effective up front. He is a little like Libba Snr in that respect.

  19. #14
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Crozier is very silky, but I'd take clay .
    Just reckon Crozier's the sort of player who wouldn't get near it in a final .
    Just my two bobs

  20. #15
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    Re: Clay Smith v Hayden Crozier - a discussion in hindsight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Remi Moses View Post
    Crozier is very silky, but I'd take clay .
    Just reckon Crozier's the sort of player who wouldn't get near it in a final .
    Just my two bobs
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    ''Dogs are Talking''- The Angels

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