2017: How did we fall this far?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Good summary but disagree with the comment on Webb not having stepped up to take Moyd or Murphy's place. He's shown great form with Footscray as a midfielder and that typically where he's been played when elevated to the seniors. If he's going to take Moyd or Murphy's position it would help if he was played at half back when given his chance. Hopefully that happens in the remainder of the season.

I also feel we've slipped behind other clubs in our game plan. An example is the return to tagging by so many teams which had proven so successful. For some reason we refuse to change our approach and it's been to our detriment. Our fast ball movement seems to have disappeared which has shown up our lack of leg speed, not helped by the poor form of our best line breaker JJ.

The decision to retain 3 outstanding veterans in Murphy Morris and M Boyd has without question restricted our ability to play both Williams and Webb. The development of Bailey Dale by contrast has come about by more game time. We do lack leg speed but there is limitations on our game plan which brought the ultimate success last year. Physically our manic attack on the ball eventually took its toll with too many injuries to key players. Roughead Morris Murphy Liberatore Picken Dunkley Jong Crameri has seen us play unsettled sides for most of 2017. Players such as M Boyd Tom Boyd Dahlhaus Hunter Biggs and Daniel have all struggled to have the same impact this year. Is it any wonder given the above that Clubs have now reverted to targeting JJ. Very few players have come through unscathed with the few exceptions being Bont Macrae and Cordy. This is a very testing time for our Club to be able to recover its mojo.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

And McLean he has been great this year

[Remi Moses]

I think Biggs and Daniel have lifted after a quiet start , but the others have just gone backwards .
No win situation with Hamling as he wanted to return to Perth and was out of contract .
Pointless holding them to ransom and especially for future dealings with freo . Been a bit stiff with injuries to Dunkley, Crameri and Jong . It was lineball with Jong and Stevens to be honest, and I'm sure Lin's marking and pace worked in his favour .

[GVGjr]

We have to get back to the basics on stop trying to be so inventive with ruckman. I still firmly believe it's one of the reasons why Tom Boyd didn't progress this year. Hopefully in 2018 we have him primarily slotted into a key forward role.

[bulldogtragic]

We have to get back to the basics on stop trying to be so inventive with ruckman. I still firmly believe it's one of the reasons why Tom Boyd didn't progress this year. Hopefully in 2018 we have him primarily slotted into a key forward role.

I was thinking this about today. 17 other clubs would've been wrapped to land him too, but the 17 other clubs would've been far more patient with his development as a KPF to get maximum return. Even playing him in the VFL like Hogan & McCartin did/are. This has been a disaster for Tom and his development this year and if we repeat this BS again next year he will not be the player Dalrymple still maintains (2 months ago he said it) will be a gun KPF.

But it will be a disaster. Roughy is testing thrown back and finding inventive ways to get injured. Campbell should ask for a trade or dominate another VFL year. English could help the equation, but if he's not strong enough or gets injured, then we are back at square one. It's as if JMac is saying these are your rucks, and reiterating it. It's as if Bevo is saying give me different players or I will play no ruckman for large chunks of games. It's as if there's two strong individuals staring each other down. Don't know how it ends.

This hasn't helped this year.
Not tagging key midfielders in close games hasn't helped this year.
Contracts haven't helped this year as Adams signed and is out for the year, Fletch & Picko's form dropped off a cliff after signing, JJs contract talk is a distraction and we still haven't got Dale or Webb signatures yet.
The older trio have played all their good games, and unfortunately we are seeing them decline and that form we carried for a while. Matty Boyd in particular. And on that, he was AA last year, but we pushed him forward into the problems.
Selection had seemed erratic too.
Giving lesser talented teams 30 point leads, to then only 'flick the switch' in the second half hasn't helped. I think it's made matters worse that if there was a hangover or arrogance around, these results ingrained a mentality that 30 minutes of good footy is enough. And it's obviously not.
I'm at a loss as to why we needed to change the role of every single assistant coach after winning the flag, and being worse in every area, I'm even more at a loss as to why?

A part from my tongue in cheek contract reference, these were variables controlled by the club. The things were controlled, we're not handled well. I'm also going to stick up for Trav Cloke. We were doing well enough at the beginning of the year before that sniping prick smashed his ribs. We weren't flying, but we were winning and Trav was kicking goals. He goes out and so does our forward set up. His injury was bad for the team, and we still keep racking up ACL injuries at a rate more than any other club over 4-5 years.

Frankly, I hope Peter Gordon does the Peter Gordon thing and instigate a top to bottom review of 2017 and make the findings and responses to address issues available to members. In the interim, I'd like to see kids with some good form such as Collins, Williams, Webb, English, Young, Lippa get games.

... And trade our pick 8 to get Lever. And whatever to get Kelly, and grab Rockliff.

[mjp]

Isn't it just players not being prepared to do this year what they were prepared to do last year?

Where are the men of mayhem? Nowhere to be found. Vs Melbourne you could tell it was over when we dominated territory but did not look like scoring in q1...the intent was there (for a period) but our organisation behind the ball was so poor that it was obvious everyone (or at least too many) were thinking me not team.

JJ has been horrific. Last year he would have been dropped. Hell, this year he would have been dropped. But there are those contract talks right and the match committee has to be seen to be supportive.

Webb is interesting. Plays mid at VFL - HB at AFL. Why is his lack of success at AFL level a mystery. If he is a hb, then that is where he should be playing at both levels.

M. Boyd being injured / recovering from concussion has hurt us. The calls for retrospective delisting baffle me - he was AA last year wasnt he...and good verging on very good in the finals. As for the OP comments on Hrovat, well, of course we got that wrong. And it has nothing to do with injury...it has everything to do with kicking. Who apart from Murphy can actually kick the ball i50 atm? As for Crameri, well, is anyone surprised? If you stopped doing something today and then tried to do it again on July 9th, 2018 I very much doubt you would be as competent...the Dickson stuff has been disappointing...the Stringer, Dalhaus and Libba stuff has been devastating. But in Libba's case is it really surprising? Hell, the off-season stuff in Thailand (or wherever) was funny but if Lebron James is posting pictures of himself in the gym 2-days after LOSING the NBA finals surely Libba should understand that at some point you need to do the work if you want to be successful.

I don't know. I am as bad as the players and have paid as little attention to this season as any year since 1996...and I am finding it hard to get upset at results like the one vs Adelaide on Friday night. But at the same time, the idea of this group of players creating a legacy/leaving a mark on the competition is something that had a lot of appeal in January...now I have to put on a replay of the prelim vs the Giants to remember the intent we showed at the ball and the way we once got numbers to a contest.

Same old.

[Doc26]

Isn't it just players not being prepared to do this year what they were prepared to do last year?

Where are the men of mayhem? Nowhere to be found. Vs Melbourne you could tell it was over when we dominated territory but did not look like scoring in q1...the intent was there (for a period) but our organisation behind the ball was so poor that it was obvious everyone (or at least too many) were thinking me not team.

JJ has been horrific. Last year he would have been dropped. Hell, this year he would have been dropped. But there are those contract talks right and the match committee has to be seen to be supportive.

Webb is interesting. Plays mid at VFL - HB at AFL. Why is his lack of success at AFL level a mystery. If he is a hb, then that is where he should be playing at both levels.

M. Boyd being injured / recovering from concussion has hurt us. The calls for retrospective delisting baffle me - he was AA last year wasnt he...and good verging on very good in the finals. As for the OP comments on Hrovat, well, of course we got that wrong. And it has nothing to do with injury...it has everything to do with kicking. Who apart from Murphy can actually kick the ball i50 atm? As for Crameri, well, is anyone surprised? If you stopped doing something today and then tried to do it again on July 9th, 2018 I very much doubt you would be as competent...the Dickson stuff has been disappointing...the Stringer, Dalhaus and Libba stuff has been devastating. But in Libba's case is it really surprising? Hell, the off-season stuff in Thailand (or wherever) was funny but if Lebron James is posting pictures of himself in the gym 2-days after LOSING the NBA finals surely Libba should understand that at some point you need to do the work if you want to be successful.

I don't know. I am as bad as the players and have paid as little attention to this season as any year since 1996...and I am finding it hard to get upset at results like the one vs Adelaide on Friday night. But at the same time, the idea of this group of players creating a legacy/leaving a mark on the competition is something that had a lot of appeal in January...now I have to put on a replay of the prelim vs the Giants to remember the intent we showed at the ball and the way we once got numbers to a contest.

Same old.

Good post MJP. I particularly liked your commentary on MBoyd. He took a couple of very heavy hits early in the season and we have suffered for it. Has not been given enough respect in my view.

[SonofScray]

Good post MJP. I particularly liked your commentary on MBoyd. He took a couple of very heavy hits early in the season and we have suffered for it. Has not been given enough respect in my view.

Picken, Boyd and Cloke all got big head knocks early on and have battled a bit afterwards.

[bulldogtragic]

Picken, Boyd and Cloke all got big head knocks early on and have battled a bit afterwards.

Libba too, from Mumford. They all seemed to come back a bit too soon, according to their immediate form when returning.

[GVGjr]

MJP, Webb plays in the midfield at the VFL. He's been a bit quiet when he's played in the seniors. I think he needs just one break out game.

[Ozza]

Like MJP's post and agree with it apart from the comment on Webb which is inaccurate. Webb hasn't played at Half Back in the seniors, he has been mid/forward. He only really played as a HBF in 2015 - and to be honest, it is where he has looked his best. I don't think inside mid/forward is his go. Prefer to see him return to half back and establish himself there with his reading of the play and foot skills.

[merantau]

I looked at North Freo and Power v Cokes. The way those teams were moving the ball was light years away from what we've been able to produce for most of the year.
We have not been able to generate SPACE to run into nor have we been using handball as an attacking weapon.
I can't remember the last time I saw a 15 mt handball delivered to a player on the run. That betrays a real lack of confidence.

[kruder]

For mine Webb playing inside mid suits the Footscray side but not the AFL side. How many inside mids do we need? Its time to try him elsewhere at both levels.

[Insufficient Intent]

Might not be able to try Webb anywhere until this is resolved:

"Midfielder Lukas Webb (one goal) had a day he'd rather forget after being reported in the first half and not having his usual output."

(From today's AFL site article "Around the State Leagues")

Great constructive posts above from bt and mjp. It's often hard to be constructive when you're miserable!

[Mantis]

We have to get back to the basics on stop trying to be so inventive with ruckman. I still firmly believe it's one of the reasons why Tom Boyd didn't progress this year. Hopefully in 2018 we have him primarily slotted into a key forward role.

I know you've been banging on about the ruck situation for forever and a day, but in Roughead & Campbell and then help from Boyd we have enough in this category.. Obviously when didn't forsee Roughy missing the first half of the season which left us exposed, especially given how fragile BTC is.

If we had another stop gap ruck on the list it would have been to the detriment to the development of English & NMM.

Not sold on Boyd as only a key forward, a lot will have to improve in his game for him to be successful in that role, but he has shown good signs as a forward-ruck.