Who is in the "must keep" list? Players and Coaches.

[josie]

Here's my take on it:

Players
Bonti
Macrae
Dale
McLean
T.Boyd
Young
Cordy
Morris
Adams
Dahl-possibly, because he is a heart and soul player


Coaches
Bevo
Corey

[GVGjr]

I tend to think the list looks about right Josie and I'd certainly have Dahlhaus in the must keep category.

That been said, any monster offer should be considered.

Wallis and Libertore are not likely to be traded unless they don't have the required hunger. I can't see that being an issue with Wallis but there is an outside chance it could be with Liberatore. JJ stays no matter what

Re the coaches I think Smith and Hansen should be maintained along with Corey. Bevo untouchable

[josie]

I kind of agree GVGjr however I think we have too many with poor kicking skills or too slow. I am not by any means advocating we give up on all or most of those that are not untouchable. There are also player loyalty and culture issues to consider as well.

Do we need Smith back at coal face instead of his role this year (was it development coach?).

[GVGjr]

I kind of agree GVGjr however I think we have too many with poor kicking skills or too slow. I am not by any means advocating we give up on all or most of those that are not untouchable. There are also player loyalty and culture issues to consider as well.

Do we need Smith back at coal face instead of his role this year (was it development coach?).

I get that, it's just a good list to debate.

I think we do need Smith back running the back line. It might be interesting to see if he pursues other development opportunities.

[bornadog]

I get that, it's just a good list to debate.

I think we do need Smith back running the back line. It might be interesting to see if he pursues other development opportunities.

I think the coaches need a refresh, most of them have been assistants for 5 years now. Bevo needs a new crew. I would be happy to get rid of the lot (except Bevo of course).

I for one don't believe for one minute that swapping them around this year effected our team and the way we play.

[bornadog]

Here's my take on it:

Players
Bonti
Macrae
Dale
McLean
T.Boyd
Young
Cordy
Morris
Adams
Dahl-possibly, because he is a heart and soul player


Coaches
Bevo
Corey

Morris to retire

Plus:

Stringer
JJ
Wood
Roughead
English

I am with GVGjr on Libba and Wallis

[Remi Moses]

Interesting Bevo talked of the lack of pre-season with Smith and Dickson , and reckon you could throw Wood in that category as well .
Gotta be very careful who you tip out, and maybe let the dust settle .

[SlimPickens]

Interesting Bevo talked of the lack of pre-season with Smith and Dickson , and reckon you could throw Wood in that category as well .
Gotta be very careful who you tip out, and maybe let the dust settle .

And yet never gets mentioned that Libba didn't run until mid Jan.

[FrediKanoute]

I maintain that this year is the price we paid for last year's heroics. No team has won from 7th before, which means that we played 4 cut-throat finals with many players playing with injuries that should have seen them iced and in for surgury a lot earlier than they did. The post season op list was enormous - meaning delayed pre-seasons etc. You add to this the fact that the group remains young and won the flag 2 years earlier than the age profile says they should.

We will not make whoesale list changes and those calling for the trading of guys like Libba, Stringer, T Boyd etc are overreacting - yes they had poor seasons, but they were not alone and trading away gun players just strengthens the opposition. On the keep list are:

Bonti
Macrae
Dale
McLean
T.Boyd
Young
Cordy
Morris
Adams
Dahl
Stringer
Libba
Wallis
Wood
Roughead
English (the whole of the draft for 2016, they get a free pass into 2018 unless attitude is an issue)
Biggs
Redders
Webb
Dunkley
Daniel
Picken
Jong
Suckers
Hunter

That is 23 (plus 2 other first year) players out of the 38 main list guys. Guys we should keep, but who may struggle next year/on borrowed time:

Smith
Dicko
Williams
Collins
Cloke
Crameri
Roberts
Campbell
honeychurch

Of these I can see maybe 1 or 2 being moved on. They rest will stay and play on.

2017 was characterised by a number of issues:

1) a poor pre-season - attitudal, time, injuries
2) injuries - Jong, Adams, Dunkley, Stringer, T Boyd, Cloke, Crammers, Wood, Morris - we never had a settled line up and the backline and forwardline in particular suffered from constantly changing personnel
3) aging - Dicko, M Boyd, Murphy - 2 of whom were prime movers last year through either age/form/fitness struggled

2017 was the season we had to have - the positives have been that we blooded/got games into Jong, Williams, Webb, Dale and Young. Negatives injuries and poor form. Can't wait for 2018!

[GVGjr]

I maintain that this year is the price we paid for last year's heroics. No team has won from 7th before, which means that we played 4 cut-throat finals with many players playing with injuries that should have seen them iced and in for surgury a lot earlier than they did. The post season op list was enormous - meaning delayed pre-seasons etc. You add to this the fact that the group remains young and won the flag 2 years earlier than the age profile says they should.

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

[hujsh]

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

I don't think that was the implication. More that the consequence of finishing 7th was that there was no room for error and we were always at a disadvantage and this meant guys were playing injured who otherwise would have been prepping for a proper pre-season.

[FrediKanoute]

In any other year 15 wins would have had us top 4 and dropping a game late in the season stopped us from having 16 wins.
7th rated us poorly, we were certainly a top 4 side or at worst a top 5 side. 7th was just a number.
I don't agree if you are implying we sort of fluked it from 7th. whatever way I look at it we should not have dropped like we have.

The post season is another matter, hopefully lessons have been learned.

Not fluking it, but it was a mighty, mighty effort - 4 cut throat games; 2 interstate. In 2016 the gap between the top 8 and the rest was large - in 2017 its not - the teams ranked 14 through 9 have improved. Essendon has a full compliment of players. We may well have been a top 4 side in 2016 who were unlucky to finish in 7th, but there have been many teams who should have been top 4 that finished outside of this and still couldn't do what our guys did - we peaked physically and mentally at the right time and rode a wave.

To me you look at 2016 as a whole - and for much of he season we were pushing hard. We rode a lot of emotion and physically extracted about as much as we possibly good. Not much was left on the park at the end. I am not surprised we have tailed off this year - we simply couldn't with the same group of players expect to repeat last years efforts on less preseason.

Missing the finals will from a group perspective be the best thing that happens to these guys - it will prove its not easy - it wont just happen.

[GVGjr]

Not fluking it, but it was a mighty, mighty effort - 4 cut throat games; 2 interstate. In 2016 the gap between the top 8 and the rest was large - in 2017 its not - the teams ranked 14 through 9 have improved. Essendon has a full compliment of players. We may well have been a top 4 side in 2016 who were unlucky to finish in 7th, but there have been many teams who should have been top 4 that finished outside of this and still couldn't do what our guys did - we peaked physically and mentally at the right time and rode a wave.

To me you look at 2016 as a whole - and for much of he season we were pushing hard. We rode a lot of emotion and physically extracted about as much as we possibly good. Not much was left on the park at the end. I am not surprised we have tailed off this year - we simply couldn't with the same group of players expect to repeat last years efforts on less preseason.

Missing the finals will from a group perspective be the best thing that happens to these guys - it will prove its not easy - it wont just happen.

I don't accept the premise that we worked hard and rode emotion in 2016 and had nothing left in the tank. If anything it should have been a spur for the players that didn't make the GF team and it should have inspired those premiership players to go as hard as they could again. I fully accept that going back to back is a difficult and rare occurrence but we should have been significantly more competitive this year.

In 2016 we were a very good team that peaked in the finals series and in 2017 we just struggled for the vast majority of it.
We now need to work out if we can get more out of the players we have for 2018 or if we need to trade to fill a few holes.

[Eastdog]

Good summary Fredi.

I would probably put Williams on the keep list. Has a good future and has really shown great signs down in defence. Smith just hasn't played that much this year but when he has played has certainly not been what he was last year particular in the final series.

It is very easy after a poor season to really cull the list down but we need to remember that many players this year have been out of form and not anywhere near 2016 form and injuries as well have really hurt our season and that was never going to make it easy.

[FrediKanoute]

Williams worries me. I don't think his decision making is all that good. Its not instinctive. Happy to give him time though as he is still young. Personally I would prefer Webb in his role - better kick, good mark and makes better decisions.

Clay.....3 knee reco's means that he is an injury away from finishing up. I don't think we will delist him, but with list space becoming an ever more prescious commodity another season like this and I think he will be moved on.
Agree - re poor season. Talk of a major cull is nonsence. Maybe if the 2015/6 draftees had stepped up to dominate, but they haven't