Thanks Thanks:  41
Likes Likes:  152
Page 19 of 22 FirstFirst ... 910111213141516171819202122 LastLast
Results 271 to 285 of 323
  1. #271
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Doglands
    Posts
    39,500
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    You haven't heard the coach call us out as being a young list that wants to get better quickly multiple times the last year or two? Or is it that you haven't seen the churn of players and the sidelining of others for younger developing options?

    Whether we should be or not is completely debatable, but we are.......and I don't think anyone at our club will ever publicly call out us having to rebuild or actively rebuilding ever again after Smorgon called out our refresh (or reset or whatever) requirements nine years ago.
    I've heard him say we are impatient to improve but I've clearly been blissfully unaware that we've been in fact rebuilding. I wonder if that will impact our memberships next year? Any idea of when the rebuild started?

    This from the 13th of September this year

    "Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge described his team as "impatient" and "in a hurry" as they ramp up their pursuit of a second premiership miracle in four years"

    As I've always said, we're impatient, we're in a hurry, we feel like you can have dramatic improvement pretty quickly. We feel like if you've got a spirit in your team and a collective mind that you can beat anyone, then who knows what may happen. I don't think that's going to be any different.''


    This from June 2019

    Anyone who thinks the Western Bulldogs concede that they are in a long-winded, four-to-five-year rebuild, could be off the mark.

    Coach Luke Beveridge is clearly aware of where his squad is at. But he’s also mindful that the changing face of the competition makes it hard to plan long term.

    He's expecting to win and is frustrated when they aren't. And he says his players share that frustration.

    The Dogs haven’t played finals since they win the premiership in 2016. And they are unlikely to do so this year either.

    But Beveridge appears impatient to get back among the top teams in the competition.

    And losses such as the 61-point flogging the Dogs copped from West Coast at Optus Stadium on Sunday night are an annoying speed hump in that road back to success.


    I really need to stop believing in what Bevo says because that doesn't sound like a rebuild to me in fact far from it. I also understand that in his pressers he does a quick about face and then says that we are young and immature. It's confusing and conflicting statements from the coach.

    But normally a rebuild would see a number of younger players coming through and persevered with more than going after the likes of Treloar, Martin, Hannan, Bruce and Keath because outside of Bailey Smith, Richards, Naughton, Vandermeer and maybe Gardner we don't seem to be 'pumping games' into many of the younger guys. West, Schache and Young being ignored in a rebuild is a bit confusing as well as why we would maintain marginal players which is more of a sign from a contending season.
    I wonder if we have an issue with our footy identity? Are we genuine contenders or on another long rebuild or maybe we've got a foot in each approach?

    Perhaps it's a rebuild by stealth more than us being a genuine contending side? Sounds like I could easily book my annual leave for September next year more than waiting for October. The one thing I am in full agreement with Bevo is that I'm getting impatient for a deep run in the finals especially now that somewhere along the way we've given up on that and started yet another rebuild.

  2. Likes jeemak, Sedat liked this post
  3. #272
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    18,741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    A rebuild doesn't just mean play the kids over an exceedingly long period does it? Teams need different things from when they end up pulling apart their lists, some struggle with youth or inexperience while some teams need more of that and vice versa.

    If you figure your list can't take you to a flag for whatever reason don't you think you just take the path to make changes until you think it can? Adding Treloar, Martin and Hannan on top of Keath and Bruce last year to step in to support the youth we've been playing suggests to me we're trying to source key ingredients from different player types and demographics in a reasonably speedy but balanced way. The future will tell us whether we've gotten it right or not.

    So if we've not said it plainly and publicly that's probably cool. Look back over the last three years though and it's clear we've done a bit of everything to get some ingredients into the team/ list that can hopefully help us make a progression from where we were. We lost the players we lost for different (and endlessly debatable reasons) reasons and adapting the list to account for that is a bit of a moving feast (between youth, experience and type). It's frustrating because you're right, some things just don't make sense and either haven't been explained or explained poorly and our overall communication as a club would benefit from being a bit clearer.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  4. Likes chef, bornadog, Dry Rot liked this post
  5. #273
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Doglands
    Posts
    39,500
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    A rebuild doesn't just mean play the kids over an exceedingly long period does it? Teams need different things from when they end up pulling apart their lists, some struggle with youth or inexperience while some teams need more of that and vice versa.
    It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post

    So if we've not said it plainly and publicly that's probably cool. Look back over the last three years though and it's clear we've done a bit of everything to get some ingredients into the team/ list that can hopefully help us make a progression from where we were. We lost the players we lost for different (and endlessly debatable reasons) reasons and adapting the list to account for that is a bit of a moving feast (between youth, experience and type). It's frustrating because you're right, some things just don't make sense and either haven't been explained or explained poorly and our overall communication as a club would benefit from being a bit clearer.
    If you look at North and Collingwood they have clearly flagged their intention to start a rebuild and you can add Adelaide and Sydney to that as well.
    Port have publicly and bravely said they're chasing a flag and they knew they needed to invest heavily into one draft to give the list some polish. Geelong have continued to top up because they feel they're a genuine chance and will probably start the season as favourites.
    Richmond have shown the competition that they're just topping up their list and backing their system to be a contender again and Brisbane have backed the draft and then added a player like Neale to take them that extra step and the Saints changed a coach and got a few things right at the trade table and played some good football this year.

    So where are we at? Are we contenders or pretenders? Will we be like Essendon or Melbourne and flirt about being around the 8 but never quite getting the job done?

    Maybe we are a bit of a chameleon who makes some noise about recruiting players to help get us to the top 4 there but never quite coming out and saying it because lofty ambitions can come back and bite you. Do we prefer to have that fall back position of saying we are a young and developing team if we don't quite live up to the expectations?

  6. #274
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    27,890
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  7. Likes bornadog, Happy Days liked this post
  8. #275
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wherever the dogs are playing
    Posts
    60,880
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.
    Looked shocking against Richmond.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  9. Likes Twodogs liked this post
  10. #276
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,896
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.
    Mans not wrong. Trengove can blame Bevo as much as he likes but he was done as a player.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  11. Likes bornadog, Twodogs liked this post
  12. #277
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    18,741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window



    If you look at North and Collingwood they have clearly flagged their intention to start a rebuild and you can add Adelaide and Sydney to that as well.
    Port have publicly and bravely said they're chasing a flag and they knew they needed to invest heavily into one draft to give the list some polish. Geelong have continued to top up because they feel they're a genuine chance and will probably start the season as favourites.
    Richmond have shown the competition that they're just topping up their list and backing their system to be a contender again and Brisbane have backed the draft and then added a player like Neale to take them that extra step and the Saints changed a coach and got a few things right at the trade table and played some good football this year.

    So where are we at? Are we contenders or pretenders? Will we be like Essendon or Melbourne and flirt about being around the 8 but never quite getting the job done?

    Maybe we are a bit of a chameleon who makes some noise about recruiting players to help get us to the top 4 there but never quite coming out and saying it because lofty ambitions can come back and bite you. Do we prefer to have that fall back position of saying we are a young and developing team if we don't quite live up to the expectations?
    Alright we have different views on what a rebuild can be, though I don't think we haven't focused on trying to develop younger players in line with what you think constitutes one (albeit we may not be happy as supporters with the choice of younger/ inexperienced players we've given opportunities).

    Now I agree that our timing in recruitment of some mature recruits suggests that we think we are getting a bit closer to the pointy end or that our core that's evolved over the last three or so years is ready to be supplemented by some experience. We haven't turned our back on the draft at the same time, and if younger players perform they'll probably be rewarded as they have been previously.

    Beyond what you see happening before your eyes I don't really understand what you want? Were Port better for Hinkley proclaiming they'd win a flag but ultimately falling short in a Preliminary final? I don't think so but if that's the type of thing that impresses you then great. We say we want to get better and do it quickly, and after finishing in the second half of the eight two seasons in a row what do you think that means?
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  13. #278
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Doglands
    Posts
    39,500
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Alright we have different views on what a rebuild can be, though I don't think we haven't focused on trying to develop younger players in line with what you think constitutes one (albeit we may not be happy as supporters with the choice of younger/ inexperienced players we've given opportunities).

    Now I agree that our timing in recruitment of some mature recruits suggests that we think we are getting a bit closer to the pointy end or that our core that's evolved over the last three or so years is ready to be supplemented by some experience. We haven't turned our back on the draft at the same time, and if younger players perform they'll probably be rewarded as they have been previously.

    Beyond what you see happening before your eyes I don't really understand what you want? Were Port better for Hinkley proclaiming they'd win a flag but ultimately falling short in a Preliminary final? I don't think so but if that's the type of thing that impresses you then great. We say we want to get better and do it quickly, and after finishing in the second half of the eight two seasons in a row what do you think that means?
    Some honesty and clarity of where the club thinks they are.
    Are we genuinely impatient for success and have gone on a recruitment and player development focus to make that happen or are we on a rebuilding phase that might take a few seasons? I'm fine with either approach but our recruitment and player development over the last 2 season doesn't line up with what I think a rebuild should look like

    As for Port flagging their intentions for the season, I was a huge admirer of the way the coach turned up the pressure on the club and players and the way he put his own position on the line if they were to fall way short

    Bontempelli comes out of contract at the end of 2021 and no doubt there will be some clubs throwing some money around and some promises to lure him away and I would suggest that if he knows where the club is it will be vastly easier for him to make an informed decision.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  14. Likes mjp liked this post
  15. #279
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    18,741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Some honesty and clarity of where the club thinks they are.
    Are we genuinely impatient for success and have gone on a recruitment and player development focus to make that happen or are we on a rebuilding phase that might take a few seasons? I'm fine with either approach but our recruitment and player development over the last 2 season doesn't line up with what I think a rebuild should look like

    As for Port flagging their intentions for the season, I was a huge admirer of the way the coach turned up the pressure on the club and players and the way he put his own position on the line if they were to fall way short

    Bontempelli comes out of contract at the end of 2021 and no doubt there will be some clubs throwing some money around and some promises to lure him away and I would suggest that if he knows where the club is it will be vastly easier for him to make an informed decision.
    We've fielded very young sides since things went off the rails in 2017. The coach has also said the following lapses in games against Brisbane and Port this year:

    https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/n...ature-bulldogs

    “We’ve played six okay quarters against Port Adelaide and Brisbane, and two diabolical ones that have cost us both games,” coach Luke Beveridge said after the game.

    “That’s where we sit. We’re immature. We’re not able to drive for the 90 to 100 minutes that the game requires at the moment.

    “We’re honest with ourselves in that. Our players know it. They’re beating themselves up over it a little bit.

    “It’s my duty and our inspiration to support them and to drive them, and sometimes be a little bit hard on them, to find a four quarter output, which we haven’t been able to find much at all.

    “We’re impatient. We want our players to be impatient. We’re trying to grow up quickly, we’re trying to be a better side quickly. We’re frustrating ourselves.”


    That's pretty clear to me. You couple these sentiments with recruiting some mature players over the past couple of years in key spots and it's also pretty clear that we are trying to compete with the sides above us. Don't hold your breath for the club to publicly spell it out verbatim between now and when the season starts though.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  16. #280
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Doglands
    Posts
    39,500
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    We've fielded very young sides since things went off the rails in 2017. The coach has also said the following lapses in games against Brisbane and Port this year:

    https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/n...ature-bulldogs

    “We’ve played six okay quarters against Port Adelaide and Brisbane, and two diabolical ones that have cost us both games,” coach Luke Beveridge said after the game.

    “That’s where we sit. We’re immature. We’re not able to drive for the 90 to 100 minutes that the game requires at the moment.

    “We’re honest with ourselves in that. Our players know it. They’re beating themselves up over it a little bit.

    “It’s my duty and our inspiration to support them and to drive them, and sometimes be a little bit hard on them, to find a four quarter output, which we haven’t been able to find much at all.

    “We’re impatient. We want our players to be impatient. We’re trying to grow up quickly, we’re trying to be a better side quickly. We’re frustrating ourselves.”


    That's pretty clear to me. You couple these sentiments with recruiting some mature players over the past couple of years in key spots and it's also pretty clear that we are trying to compete with the sides above us. Don't hold your breath for the club to publicly spell it out verbatim between now and when the season starts though.
    We seems to have a couple of catchall responses to poor performances that we dole out. For everyone that says we are impatient there are comments on how we are young and immature but if we accept that we are contending I think it strengthens our chances of keeping Bontempelli
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  17. #281
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Qld.
    Posts
    9,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.
    And kick better.

  18. Likes Twodogs liked this post
  19. #282
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    18,741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    We seems to have a couple of catchall responses to poor performances that we dole out. For everyone that says we are impatient there are comments on how we are young and immature but if we accept that we are contending I think it strengthens our chances of keeping Bontempelli
    Sure we do, but every team does and ours are usually fairly close to the mark. I mean we are young and inconsistent, and usually lapses in effort cost us. We do defend too high, we do have issues with personnel in different parts of the ground while importantly we can compete with the majority of the competition if we put all of the pieces we do have together on any day.

    Sometimes I don't think we as supporters have reconciled where we thought we should be post 2016 to where we actually are. 2017 and 2018 were for different reasons a bit of a shit show and we're all disappointed that we didn't go on with things. But we didn't and we need to accept that we've had to change tack since. Part of that change has been developing a strong core built around the likes of Bont, Jacko, Libba and Hunter, Dunkley, Daniel and their vintage, and trying to supplement diminishing experience due to players lost over time.

    We still have gaps though, particularly with our defence in lieu of transitioning Naughton forward and not being able to find anyone of his clear capabilities to replace him as yet. I'm unsure whether we can say or accept we're contending at the moment, we have a bit to prove for mine before we can say we are. Irrespective of any of that I'm sure Bont is fully aware of where we're placed, shouting from the rooftops that we're ready to be considered as contending isn't going to help keep him, especially if it isn't true.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  20. #283
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    27,890
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    And kick better.
    Probably not after sprinting 100 metres. I'd be more likely to pull my hamstring off the bone than anything at my age.

    I could teach him to kick better than me though.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  21. Likes Bulldog4life liked this post
  22. #284
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Qld.
    Posts
    9,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    Probably not after sprinting 100 metres. I'd be more likely to pull my hamstring off the bone than anything at my age.

    I could teach him to kick better than me though.
    Such an awkward Kicking style.

  23. #285
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    West of somewhere.
    Posts
    6,148
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window
    Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

    1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
    2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?
    3/. Another mid-sized forward (Hannan) who doesn't really crumb and doesn't have a lot of tricks. Whilst I acknowledge he has aggression (missing in the games of Lloyd and Dale) he is not exactly a proven ball winner. Like the Lloyd selection a couple of years ago - and like St Kilda recruiting Crouch this year before all the leaves shook off the trees (aka Treloar) - I don't know why we had to commit to this selection seemingly months before the trade period...register an interest? Sure. But we seem to do more than that...

    I guess this off-season was all about JUH and I get it, but overall I agree with the points on this thread from GVGjr and I don't understand what we are doing. Furthermore:

    1/. If we are going to keep Schache....PLAY HIM.
    2/. If we are going to keep Young....PLAY HIM.
    3/. If we are going to keep Dale....PLAY HIM.

    As for the La Young debacle, well, enough has been said about that already.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  24. Thanks GVGjr thanked for this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •