Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

[GVGjr]

Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?
3/. Another mid-sized forward (Hannan) who doesn't really crumb and doesn't have a lot of tricks. Whilst I acknowledge he has aggression (missing in the games of Lloyd and Dale) he is not exactly a proven ball winner. Like the Lloyd selection a couple of years ago - and like St Kilda recruiting Crouch this year before all the leaves shook off the trees (aka Treloar) - I don't know why we had to commit to this selection seemingly months before the trade period...register an interest? Sure. But we seem to do more than that...

I guess this off-season was all about JUH and I get it, but overall I agree with the points on this thread from GVGjr and I don't understand what we are doing. Furthermore:

1/. If we are going to keep Schache....PLAY HIM.
2/. If we are going to keep Young....PLAY HIM.
3/. If we are going to keep Dale....PLAY HIM.

As for the La Young debacle, well, enough has been said about that already.

The addition of Treloar made more sense if we had have let Dunkley go but I'm glad we didn't. It will be interesting to see how we spread the midfield minutes. We've got a bit stronger in an area we were already strong and to me we've flagged that we are pushing towards a top 4 finish

Martin makes a little bit of sense in that he can work with and improve English and Sweet. If we are in a rebuild phase then it doesn't make a lot of sense

12 months ago we said we could play 3 tall forwards but only played 2. I suspect Hannan will be our 3rd tall in 2021

We should be playing Schache but unless we move Bruce or Naughton to the back line we probably won't
Young has to get in front of both Wood and Cordy if he is to earn his spot which is a big ask. I'm assuming Gardner is ahead of him
I'm not sure how things play out for Dale. He has the talent but he needs to be more consistent

Fascinating to see how we set up in 2021

[Sedat]

The recruitment of Trengove was either a big failure of the coaching/match committee or a big failure of the recruiting/list management team. Either way it was a big failure.

[Twodogs]

Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?.

Minson was All Australian one year and their wasn't a spot for him the next year either.

Trealor I understand. There are always injuries and you can never have enough good players on the list, I'm happy for us to have 25 miles on the list because you'll always find a spot for all the ones in form and who aren't nursing something.

I don't really understand the recruitment of another aged ruckman. If we play Martin in the ruck then he prevents the development of one of our best assets-English the ruckman. We can say "but we can play English forward" but can we? That prevents the development of another weapon Jamara the forward. To my eye (and I understand it's frustrating) is we have to play English in the ruck. It's the only way he will develop to the stage we want him to. Playing in the ruck is the only way I've ever seen a ruckman, apart from Luke Darcy and we didn't have a tall forward at that stage he was keeping out of the side AND Darce could actually play forward-now we have 3, develop.

[bornadog]

The recruitment of Trengove was either a big failure of the coaching/match committee or a big failure of the recruiting/list management team. Either way it was a big failure.

Yep, it happens sometimes. However at the time we needed someone and he was in good form at Port, so we took the chance with no one else really available.

[bornadog]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

[GVGjr]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

So the rebuild started 3 years ago BAD?
And why don't you think the club would admit it?

[Danjul]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

Sorry, but I don’t agree.

In the last four seasons of home and away games (about 85 matches) we have spent a total of 2 weekends in the top 4 on the ladder.

This season we spent 3 weeks in the bottom 4 but only 2 weeks in the top 7. In the last three seasons we have spent only 6 weekends in the top 7. (4,5,6,7,7,7)

No cause for optimism there. We are a model of consistency. 70% of our time is spent hovering between 8th and 14th.

In fact, Considering the players we have had on the list I just cannot figure out how we have been so bad recently.

[Vred]

Minson was All Australian one year and their wasn't a spot for him the next year either.

Trealor I understand. There are always injuries and you can never have enough good players on the list, I'm happy for us to have 25 miles on the list because you'll always find a spot for all the ones in form and who aren't nursing something.

I don't really understand the recruitment of another aged ruckman. If we play Martin in the ruck then he prevents the development of one of our best assets-English the ruckman. We can say "but we can play English forward" but can we? That prevents the development of another weapon Jamara the forward. To my eye (and I understand it's frustrating) is we have to play English in the ruck. It's the only way he will develop to the stage we want him to. Playing in the ruck is the only way I've ever seen a ruckman, apart from Luke Darcy and we didn't have a tall forward at that stage he was keeping out of the side AND Darce could actually play forward-now we have 3, develop.

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

[josie]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

Me either.

[bornadog]

So the rebuild started 3 years ago BAD?
And why don't you think the club would admit it?

Yes after the 2017 season when we lost so many players.

Clubs rarely admit they are having a rebuild. They want the optimism to be kept alive with fans, but sometimes like North, you have to bite the bullet and just go for it.

[bornadog]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

At the same age, Gawn was behind English - statistically

Player Statistics Comparison

Timothy English Name Max Gawn Western Bulldogs Team Melbourne Demons Ruck Position Ruck 47 Career Games 134 South Fremantle Origin Sandringham Dragons August 10, 1997 Date of Birth December 30, 1991 23yr 4mth Age Turned 23 in 2014 205cm Height 208cm 93kg Weight 109kg 2016 National Draft Last Drafted In 2009 National Draft Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 3, Pick #34 Western Bulldogs Last Drafted By Melbourne Demons 2020 Stats for Season 2014 18 Games 9 7.2 Kicks 4.3 6.3 Handballs 6.2 13.4 Disposals 10.6 4.3 Marks 4.2 0.4 Goals 0.4 0.6 Behinds 0.6 2.2 Tackles 1.2 16.0 Hitouts 14.8 1.7 Inside 50s 0.9 0.1 Goal Assists 0.3 1.0 Frees For 0.3 1.0 Frees Against 1.0 6.8 Contested Possessions 5.3 7.2 Uncontested Possessions 5.2 9.6 Effective Disposals 8.2 71.6% Disposal Efficiency % 77.4% 2.1 Clangers 1.4 1.3 Contested Marks 1.9 0.7 Marks Inside 50 0.4 2.2 Clearances 0.6 0.8 Rebound 50s 0.3 2.8 One Percenters 1.3 0.1 Bounces 0 87.6 Time On Ground % 71.7 0.8 Centre Clearances 1.4 Stoppage Clearances 3.8 Score Involvements 163.1 Metres Gained 1.9 Turnovers 2.8 Intercepts 0.3 Tackles Inside 50 72.8 AFL Fantasy Score 58.3 102.1 Supercoach Score 63.2

[GVGjr]

Yes after the 2017 season when we lost so many players.

Clubs rarely admit they are having a rebuild. They want the optimism to be kept alive with fans, but sometimes like North, you have to bite the bullet and just go for it.

So they want to sell a positive message rather than deliver an accurate one? Doesn't seem to be the best way to embrace the supporter base.

I'll have a closer look at our trades, departures and drafts from 2017 because I don't think it quite aligns with a rebuild. We knew Murphy and Matthew Boyd were at the end of their fantastic career's and we knew there was a significant doubt on Tom Boyd's back injury and should have addressed that. I think in reality our coaching had a gap year in 2017 and let the players attitude slide and it took a couple of seasons to get them back on board and focused. The conduct of some of our players in 2017 and 2018 was appalling and our coaches didn't address it correctly. I suspect we moved a lot of players on for discipline issues more than a planned rebuild.

[bornadog]

So they want to sell a positive message rather than deliver an accurate one? Doesn't seem to be the best way to embrace the supporter base.

I am only guessing, but it is true, rarely do any clubs admit a rebuild.

we knew there was a significant doubt on Tom Boyd's back injury and should have addressed that.

Not sure why you keep talking about Tom's Back. Tom already stated in interviews as well as Mike Sheahan's show Öpen mike", that he had mental health issues and lost the passion for playing football. - watch here. He did have back issues, but seemed to be managing it as he was prepared to play season 2019 after going through a preseason.

I'll have a closer look at our trades, departures and drafts from 2017

When you look at that you need to also look at the injury lists those years, as we had a large proportion of senior players on the list and we were forced to play a lot of young players with limited experience.

When you look at 2017 closer we won 11 lost 11 and lost 4 games by 9 points or less - we did win a couple of close ones too, so should have made finals.

I think in reality our coaching had a gap year in 2017 and let the players attitude slide and it took a couple of seasons to get them back on board and focused. The conduct of some of our players in 2017 and 2018 was appalling and our coaches didn't address it correctly. I suspect we moved a lot of players on for discipline issues more than a planned rebuild.

I don't agree in a gap year, but if it was, then no wonder after not winning a premiership for 62 years.

The discipline issues was only a couple of players - Stringer, Dahl and maybe it did effect all the players, but I don't see it as an excuse.

The fact remains we lost experienced players in Murphy, MBoyd, Morris, Picken - traded Roughead, Stringer, Dahl, Hamling, Biggs and Tom Boyd retired and were left with playing the youngest team in the AFL for 2017 and 2018. I know you don't like using the youngest team as an excuse, but, the fact is no teams that young week after week win lots of games in the history of the AFL.

We only have 10 premiership players left on the list and only 3 or 4 are playing for other teams. The only one I miss is Hamling. So we had to rebuild our list, but it has been a slowly slowly soft rebuild.

[Twodogs]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

Me either.

I have every confidence that he will put on the necessary mass in the middle of his body and in his legs to compete with the bigger guys. He's one of the best ruck prospects I've seen at his age. His pace and athleticism sets him apart and gives him a real point of difference.

[Danjul]

I have every confidence that he will put on the necessary mass in the middle of his body and in his legs to compete with the bigger guys. He's one of the best ruck prospects I've seen at his age. His pace and athleticism sets him apart and gives him a real point of difference.

Exactly, and playing him in the ruck so often and so young has wasted a lot of this.