The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018

[bulldogtragic]

Is Rohan Smith's son Jacob up for draft this year? Sorry if this has been discussed before. I just haven't heard much about him and only seem to hear about Rhylee West. I thought Jacob was either the same age as Rhylee or older?

Pretty sure it was last year. The headliners are West (2018), Kellett & Libba (2019), MacPherson (Vic Metro MVP U/16 this year) (2020). There's also 3 more West boys, Kai Dimattina and I think a Darcy floating around. Plenty on the radar, some very good ones potentially too. As an aside, that's why I'm no fan of running draft point deficits. It will just keep compounding problems.

[lemmon]

Pretty sure it was last year. The headliners are West (2018), Kellett & Libba (2019), MacPherson (Vic Metro MVP U/16 this year) (2020). There's also 3 more West boys, Kai Dimattina and I think a Darcy floating around. Plenty on the radar, some very good ones potentially too. As an aside, that's why I'm no fan of running draft point deficits. It will just keep compounding problems.

Any early indications about where the 2019 and 2020 boys could go, BT?

[bulldogtragic]

Any early indications about where the 2019 and 2020 boys could go, BT?

I've followed them all from the comfort of an iPad and some very well informed watchers.

Kellett as a younger player would win everything. Club B&Fs, League B&Fs etc. played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and was always ahead of Libba in a head to head of who is better. I had an oppo coach who has coached against him for years rave about him. But next year is his time to shine, but I'm bullish from what I have heard and read. (Ps. Thank god we got Mark to 101 games!!)

Libba has the right pedigree. Played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and looks every bit the chance. The same coach from above tends to think he will end up at the club too. But again, next year is the make or break.

Hard to tell what they will cost in my book with a year to run.


MacPherson, this coach knew of but hadn't seen as much but had high opinion of him. Was playing in the U/16 Vic Metro squad with some players of his so had first hand info. Obviously Super JR. did well winning the MVP for Vic Metro. Something that Rhylee West did two years ago and Rhylee looks like a first rounder. So maybe that's a rough guide.


I'm less across all our NGAs, but if these boys go high in the order plus if Khamis like players fall from the skies to us, I don't want to see us running deficits. I'd rather make some hard calls, force some fringe or injured players out or allow trades if players demand them and purchase these kids outright if they make the talent profile noticeably better without compounding the problem into a rolling problem over years until it bites us badly (we've done it this year with Dahl, Biggs/Redders & maybe Adams. I think it's the best approach).

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I've followed them all from the comfort of an iPad and some very well informed watchers.

Kellett as a younger player would win everything. Club B&Fs, League B&Fs etc. played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and was always ahead of Libba in a head to head of who is better. I had an oppo coach who has coached against him for years rave about him. But next year is his time to shine, but I'm bullish from what I have heard and read. (Ps. Thank god we got Mark to 101 games!!)

Libba has the right pedigree. Played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and looks every bit the chance. The same coach from above tends to think he will end up at the club too. But again, next year is the make or break.

Hard to tell what they will cost in my book with a year to run.


MacPherson, this coach knew of but hadn't seen as much but had high opinion of him. Was playing in the U/16 Vic Metro squad with some players of his so had first hand info. Obviously Super JR. did well winning the MVP for Vic Metro. Something that Rhylee West did two years ago and Rhylee looks like a first rounder. So maybe that's a rough guide.


I'm less across all our NGAs, but if these boys go high in the order plus if Khamis like players fall from the skies to us, I don't want to see us running deficits. I'd rather make some hard calls, force some fringe or injured players out or allow trades if players demand them and purchase these kids outright if they make the talent profile noticeably better without compounding the problem into a rolling problem over years until it bites us badly (we've done it this year with Dahl, Biggs/Redders & maybe Adams. I think it's the best approach).

I thought he was Nigel's boy?

[GVGjr]

I thought he was Nigel's boy?

Yep, he's Nigel's boy. Nigel talked about him at the Legends and Young Guns night a few months ago. Bit of a character is Nigel

[bulldogtragic]

I thought he was Nigel's boy?

Yep. Brain fart. Nigel and his glorious 100th & 101st game.

[Testekill]

I've followed them all from the comfort of an iPad and some very well informed watchers.

Kellett as a younger player would win everything. Club B&Fs, League B&Fs etc. played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and was always ahead of Libba in a head to head of who is better. I had an oppo coach who has coached against him for years rave about him. But next year is his time to shine, but I'm bullish from what I have heard and read. (Ps. Thank god we got Mark to 101 games!!)

Libba has the right pedigree. Played interleague throughout, development squads and Vic Metro U/16s and looks every bit the chance. The same coach from above tends to think he will end up at the club too. But again, next year is the make or break.

Hard to tell what they will cost in my book with a year to run.


MacPherson, this coach knew of but hadn't seen as much but had high opinion of him. Was playing in the U/16 Vic Metro squad with some players of his so had first hand info. Obviously Super JR. did well winning the MVP for Vic Metro. Something that Rhylee West did two years ago and Rhylee looks like a first rounder. So maybe that's a rough guide.


I'm less across all our NGAs, but if these boys go high in the order plus if Khamis like players fall from the skies to us, I don't want to see us running deficits. I'd rather make some hard calls, force some fringe or injured players out or allow trades if players demand them and purchase these kids outright if they make the talent profile noticeably better without compounding the problem into a rolling problem over years until it bites us badly (we've done it this year with Dahl, Biggs/Redders & maybe Adams. I think it's the best approach).

Luckily I think that our only NGA kid that looks likely to go high is Ugle-Hagan in 2020. He should be a ripper if he keeps developing like he has.

[Eastdog]

I reckon Mofra, BT, The Doctor, Testekill are great when it come to the list management threads

[Remi Moses]

Not sure if anyone’s mentioned
There’s also Tyler Kolyniuk available next season
Feeling decidedly ancient knowing that

[Doc26]

Not sure if anyone’s mentioned
There’s also Tyler Kolyniuk available next season
Feeling decidedly ancient knowing that

I feel you Remi, with Mason Fletcher likely to get picked up as F/S this year that equates to 3 generations of Fletchers I will have watched in the stands.

[Remi Moses]

I feel you Remi, with Mason Fletcher likely to get picked up as F/S this year that equates to 3 generations of Fletchers I will have watched in the stands.

I hear ya Doc . Fletcher of the Ken variety was a teacher at my school

[bornadog]

I hear ya Doc . Fletcher of the Ken variety was a teacher at my school

What school Remi? He was our fill in PE teacher for awhile.

[ledge]

What school Remi? He was our fill in PE teacher for awhile.

I did Kenny fletchers “roast” celebration invitations back when I was in trades school, that was somewhere between 1980 and 1983.
Trade teacher had something to do with the essendon footy club and organised us apprentices to print them up.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Everything is working out juuuuuuuust fine.

Bear with me dear woofers, and may i preface my ‘speech’ by apologising for being one of the ‘parasites’ on this site. I’m on here pretty much every day but rarely ever contribute. it’s not because I don’t want to, but i rarely ever seem to be able to carve out the time required to contribute something with enough weight to be worth demanding or requesting anyone else’s time or attention. But when it comes to footy news. WOOF is my absolute 100% guaranteed source.

now……..here’s a contribution.


In 2014, when I saw the emergence of Bont, Stringer, Macrae, Libba etc. I said to my friends, now’s the time to cash in all our chips, because these kids are the core of a premiership team. Sell, sell sell…… we need to be ruthless like hawthorn. Trade Cooney, trade anyone, and even though it felt ‘dirty’ at the time, something that could only be whispered between ne’erdowells and vagabonds in the stinking back alleys of some industrial hellhole, I said we should even trade Griffen. Yes……….I said it, even though it felt so wrong.

And then………. look what happened. Cooney traded out, OMG Griffen walks…………..we win a flag.

So anyway, i’m revisiting this recent list analysis of mine (read below)………and thus far it’s all working out as i hoped/thought/predicted which is hopefully a good sign.

First.
Dalhaus leaving is GREAT for us………it’s perfect………AND he comes out of it the ‘bad guy’.

We just had a glut of bad kicking midfielders, we needed to clear one/some he was one of the worst, now he’s gone……….. perfect. Add Clay Smith, Biggs and Honeychurch (presumably) to the exodus from that bunch……….. all ok with me. The list is already looking better balanced.
Pick 25 for Dalhaus? actually not bad.

Next Marcus Adams. We have a glut of tall defenders………… If we have to lose one, Marcus Adams is a good one to lose. His highlight reel is pretty damn impressive, and thankfully, he’s been injured for so long that the rest of the football world seem to be pretty unaware of his shortcomings. If we could destroy every copy of the last game in Ballarat, we should. But somehow nobody seems to have seen it.(wow, what a surprise) if it’s true that Brisbane want him on a 4 year deal that’s great. A pick in the 20’s/30’s would be great. Kieran Collins is also gone from that group. I can feel the list rebalancing even more.

Next. Mitch Wallis. Great that we have signed him. You simply don’t let people like Mitch walk out the door. Being a father son as well actually holds a lot of weight with me. It really does. And I’ve never seen or heard anything about Mitch Wallis ever doing anything that would make you question his character or commitment. AND he is a bloody good footballer and one of the only players on our list who is likely to nail a set shot. So good……….tick.


Next. Chad Wingard…………… I know it hasn’t happened yet, but if you could go into a laboratory and build the EXACT player we need……….it is Chad Wingard.
Dangerous crumbing forward, strong in the air. Can create havoc in the midfield with pace and class and exquisite footskills. This is what we’re screaming out for. This is what we’re lacking.

If Chad don’t come, we should turn our attention to Jack Martin from the Gold Coast. He could become that player, and would come cheaper than Chad too. In fact I would LOVE to get Jack Martin. (can we get both?????)

But…….… And this is the bit I don’t quite understand.
There’s a conversation out there that presumes Roughead and Campbell will be traded or delisted……..so we need to look for back up ruckmen from lesser leagues or players who aren’t getting a game with other AFL teams…………………….
But are we really gonna find anyone better than Roughead and Campbell????????

The names that keep being mentioned are just so unimpressive…………..

Either we let Roughead and Campbell go because Bevo doesn’t believe in ruckmen, and we just play Pee Wee Herman in the ruck………or we keep them because they’re good back up ruckmen?

This is one part of the puzzle I’m really struggling with.

I personally believe Tim English will go down in history as one of THE great ruckman. Seriously.
But you always need back up, and I want Boyd to go forward.

Really looking forward to how the rest of the trade period pans out.

I think we’re back in the finals race next year with the adjustments we’re making.
And close to having a serious crack at another flag.

This is going to need to be a huge trade year for us.

There are some huge holes in our playing list.
And some huge gluts.

I have deliberately left quite a few recent draftees out of this discussion as some of them are very good and some of them I don’t really have a handle on yet.

Nevertheless………..

We have a huge oversupply of mid-sized, mid-paced players with questionable foot skills.

3. Mitch Wallis
5. Josh Dunkley
6. Luke Dahlhaus
7. Lachie Hunter
14. Clay Smith
19. Lukas Webb
22. Mitch Honeychurch
24. Shane Biggs
46. Lin Jong

We have a surplus of tall defenders

2. Lewis Young
8. Jackson Trengove
12. Zaine Cordy
18. Fletcher Roberts
25. Marcus Adams
32. Kieran Collins
33. Aaron Naughton
38. Dale Morris

We have a swathe of rebounding defenders.

Matthew Suckling
9. Hayden Crozier
10. Easton Wood
20. Ed Richards
34. Bailey Williams
39. Jason Johannisen.

And ruck men? Not too many, but one that never gets a game (Campbell) and one (Boyd) who I think should be played as a permanent forward.

15. Tom Campbell
17. Tom Boyd
23. Jordan Roughead
44. Tim English

We simply can’t maintain this list profile and be competitive.

We lack genuine foot speed and foot skills, and we have no small menacing goalsneaks.

We need to lose some from each of these groups, although I’d keep all the players in the rebounding defenders group unless we get a big offer for Johanissen. And frankly, since he won the Norm Smith he’s been playing a pretty selfish, show pony, unaccountable, ‘look at me’ and look at my ‘crazy hairstyle’ game. It’s starting to wear pretty thin with me. Particularly his insistence on demanding the ball from someone having a set shot and then proceeding to miss time and time and time again. And I guess we’re stuck with Crozier for the time being. Let’s hope he continues to improve. And as far as the ruck group goes, I think Campbell probably deserves more game time than he’s getting. So for his own sake he probably wants to move on.

The top group is the hardest. I’d hate to trade out any father/sons. I just don’t like the look/feel of it. And I still think there’s a lot of talent in Hunter. And Wallis is a very reliable meat and potatoes type. Actually not bad by foot, pretty reliable as a set shot, just not a long strong kick, and we need guys who can break lines with their kicking. But I know Wallis bleeds red white and blue and I would hate to see him in another guernsey. I’ll say right here and now, to me he’s a definite keeper.

Honeychurch is a no brainer. Delist or trade.

Biggs is so hopelessly out of form it’s delist or trade.

Smith should retire I think while his knees will still let him walk.

And Jong, I’m just afraid he’s surplus to our needs in that group. Even when fit and in the team he doesn’t provide us with what we really need. Yeah he’s strong and fast and brave, but he still can’t kick well consistently, and if he was the only one who couldn’t kick well, you could carry him. Unfortunately he’s in a conga line of guys who can’t kick. I actually love him, but this is about logic and strategy, we can’t be too touchy feely.

Dahlhaus is a pretty important figure at the club marketing wise, and if he was moved on it would be a very unpopular move. VERY unpopular. But gee his kicking has gone so far backwards, that he’s almost literally kicking backwards these days. He can’t make the distance on a set shot from 30 metres out. If someone threw a big offer down and we could get the free agency………………geez you’d have to consider it. We simply need to weed out some of these types.

I’d even let Dunkley go if someone came after him with a decent offer.

Webb. Maybe better by foot than the rest, but little or no trade value, and just doesn’t get the ball enough in his senior appearances.

We need to cull 4/5 players from that group.


Then there’s the tall defenders.

We simply have too many. But none of them are worth much on the open market except probably Naughton (and we’ll be keeping him of course.)

Roberts, definitely out. Retire or trade for peanuts.

Marcus Adams, good player but so often injured his trade value isn’t what he’s actually worth as a player. An offer from a WA club perhaps?

Kieran Collins? Maybe someone is still keen on him from his draft year performances but his trade worth is certainly not gonna be much.

Trengove we’re stuck with ala Crozier.

Morris. His last year? Maybe one more…just…but no trade there.

Young, no trade value and still an untapped talent. So keep.

Either way, we can’t keep them all on our list in my opinion.

We have pick 5 (pretty sure that won’t change) and we need points for West and Khamis.

We need pace and foot skills, pace and foot skills, pace and foot skills, rinse and repeat.

Please discuss

[The Adelaide Connection]

Everything is working out juuuuuuuust fine.

Bear with me dear woofers, and may i preface my ‘speech’ by apologising for being one of the ‘parasites’ on this site. I’m on here pretty much every day but rarely ever contribute. it’s not because I don’t want to, but i rarely ever seem to be able to carve out the time required to contribute something with enough weight to be worth demanding or requesting anyone else’s time or attention. But when it comes to footy news. WOOF is my absolute 100% guaranteed source.

now……..here’s a contribution.


In 2014, when I saw the emergence of Bont, Stringer, Macrae, Libba etc. I said to my friends, now’s the time to cash in all our chips, because these kids are the core of a premiership team. Sell, sell sell…… we need to be ruthless like hawthorn. Trade Cooney, trade anyone, and even though it felt ‘dirty’ at the time, something that could only be whispered between ne’erdowells and vagabonds in the stinking back alleys of some industrial hellhole, I said we should even trade Griffen. Yes……….I said it, even though it felt so wrong.

And then………. look what happened. Cooney traded out, OMG Griffen walks…………..we win a flag.

So anyway, i’m revisiting this recent list analysis of mine (read below)………and thus far it’s all working out as i hoped/thought/predicted which is hopefully a good sign.

First.
Dalhaus leaving is GREAT for us………it’s perfect………AND he comes out of it the ‘bad guy’.

We just had a glut of bad kicking midfielders, we needed to clear one/some he was one of the worst, now he’s gone……….. perfect. Add Clay Smith, Biggs and Honeychurch (presumably) to the exodus from that bunch……….. all ok with me. The list is already looking better balanced.
Pick 25 for Dalhaus? actually not bad.

Next Marcus Adams. We have a glut of tall defenders………… If we have to lose one, Marcus Adams is a good one to lose. His highlight reel is pretty damn impressive, and thankfully, he’s been injured for so long that the rest of the football world seem to be pretty unaware of his shortcomings. If we could destroy every copy of the last game in Ballarat, we should. But somehow nobody seems to have seen it.(wow, what a surprise) if it’s true that Brisbane want him on a 4 year deal that’s great. A pick in the 20’s/30’s would be great. Kieran Collins is also gone from that group. I can feel the list rebalancing even more.

Next. Mitch Wallis. Great that we have signed him. You simply don’t let people like Mitch walk out the door. Being a father son as well actually holds a lot of weight with me. It really does. And I’ve never seen or heard anything about Mitch Wallis ever doing anything that would make you question his character or commitment. AND he is a bloody good footballer and one of the only players on our list who is likely to nail a set shot. So good……….tick.


Next. Chad Wingard…………… I know it hasn’t happened yet, but if you could go into a laboratory and build the EXACT player we need……….it is Chad Wingard.
Dangerous crumbing forward, strong in the air. Can create havoc in the midfield with pace and class and exquisite footskills. This is what we’re screaming out for. This is what we’re lacking.

If Chad don’t come, we should turn our attention to Jack Martin from the Gold Coast. He could become that player, and would come cheaper than Chad too. In fact I would LOVE to get Jack Martin. (can we get both?????)

But…….… And this is the bit I don’t quite understand.
There’s a conversation out there that presumes Roughead and Campbell will be traded or delisted……..so we need to look for back up ruckmen from lesser leagues or players who aren’t getting a game with other AFL teams…………………….
But are we really gonna find anyone better than Roughead and Campbell????????

The names that keep being mentioned are just so unimpressive…………..

Either we let Roughead and Campbell go because Bevo doesn’t believe in ruckmen, and we just play Pee Wee Herman in the ruck………or we keep them because they’re good back up ruckmen?

This is one part of the puzzle I’m really struggling with.

I personally believe Tim English will go down in history as one of THE great ruckman. Seriously.
But you always need back up, and I want Boyd to go forward.

Really looking forward to how the rest of the trade period pans out.

I think we’re back in the finals race next year with the adjustments we’re making.
And close to having a serious crack at another flag.

Great post and I agree with almost everything you say.
Although my sample space of GC games isnt as high as most other teams, from what I have seen I do worry that Jack Martin gets pushed around too easily. I think his ceiling isn’t quite as high as hyped and hoped, and he is going to be a bit “Spindleshanks” in his inability to bulk up and find that extra strength.

I dont get the ruck situation. I think there have been enough teams in the last few years that have rolled the ruck dice and snake-eyesed badly to serve as a cautionary tale. Port were arrogant enough to think that Ryder was indestructible and letting Trengove go almost definitely cost them a top four finish last year.
If there is no love for Roughead and Campbell I agree that locking them in is a no brainer. At worst they go a long way to helping Footscray (both competitively and in leadership/experience) and I don’t think enough weight is given to the positive impact that a successful two’s has on the development and morale of the blokes not cracking the firsts.