Can Fletcher Roberts bounce back and take a key role in Defence?

[Axe Man]

Judging key defenders on possessions is like judging Caleb Daniel on contested marks, it's way down the list of relevant KPI's.

[Twodogs]

Since when were key defenders judged on their volume of possessions?

Since Rocket figured out that getting the ball into Brian Lake's hands was a good thing otherwise Lake was just standing in the goalsquare all by himself watching his direct opponent further down the ground getting involved in scoring chains. If one of our defenders has the ball in his hand then that means the opposition forward doesn't have it.


Defenders dont need to get the dame possession numbers as mids do but they di need to be more involved in the game than the old traditional 'see ball, punch ball' type of defender who only had to worry about finding the boundary line.

[hujsh]

Since Rocket figured out that getting the ball into Brian Lake's hands was a good thing otherwise Lake was just standing in the goalsquare all by himself watching his direct opponent further down the ground getting involved in scoring chains. If one of our defenders has the ball in his hand then that means the opposition forward doesn't have it.


Defenders dont need to get the dame possession numbers as mids do but they di need to be more involved in the game than the old traditional 'see ball, punch ball' type of defender who only had to worry about finding the boundary line.

Unless he’s marking an opposition kick I dispute the idea that it’s ever a ‘good’ idea to have the ball in Lakes hands.

[Danjul]

In 2018 Dale Morris averaged 11possessions (4.5 kicks) per game.

The player in my previous comment averaged 14 (7.5) in 10 consecutive games late in 2018, and he wasn’t dropped after the game with 10 possessions (4 kicks). His name is Rance.

both Rance and Morris are generally seen as worth giving a try.

in game 1 of 2018 Roberts performance was 14 (12) and he was banished. In the same game 2 other back men, Crozier and Trengove, combined for a total of 13 possessions. And the whole team had less than 350 possessions - which always guarantees a big loss. I suspect that Roberts’ main value to the club is as a scapegoat.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

In 2018 Dale Morris averaged 11possessions (4.5 kicks) per game.

The player in my previous comment averaged 14 (7.5) in 10 consecutive games late in 2018, and he wasn’t dropped after the game with 10 possessions (4 kicks). His name is Rance.

both Rance and Morris are generally seen as worth giving a try.

in game 1 of 2018 Roberts performance was 14 (12) and he was banished. In the same game 2 other back men, Crozier and Trengove, combined for a total of 13 possessions. And the whole team had less than 350 possessions - which always guarantees a big loss. I suspect that Roberts’ main value to the club is as a scapegoat.

Except that you are making that comparison based on a single piece of data alone. And that single piece of data is not instructive as an accurate measurement of performance, especially for that role.

It tells us nothing about how many contests he got to. How many times his opponent scored or was involved in a score. How many times he fumbled or failed to get to the right position. Or whether or not he distributed those possessions he garnered in alignmemt with team plan. There are way more things that a player is judged on. You're making a strawman argument by holding up one single piece of data as proving he has been scapegoated.

[bornadog]

In 2018 Dale Morris averaged 11possessions (4.5 kicks) per game.

The player in my previous comment averaged 14 (7.5) in 10 consecutive games late in 2018, and he wasn’t dropped after the game with 10 possessions (4 kicks). His name is Rance.

both Rance and Morris are generally seen as worth giving a try.

in game 1 of 2018 Roberts performance was 14 (12) and he was banished. In the same game 2 other back men, Crozier and Trengove, combined for a total of 13 possessions. And the whole team had less than 350 possessions - which always guarantees a big loss. I suspect that Roberts’ main value to the club is as a scapegoat.

The trouble with Roberts is he is no good when the ball hits the ground. Both Morris and Rance are good at second efforts, 1%ers, and picking up the ball off the ground.

Except that you are making that comparison based on a single piece of data alone. And that single piece of data is not instructive as an accurate measurement of performance, especially for that role.

Exactly.

[ledge]

Seems Roberts is in the Campbell camp, won’t get a gig and is just playing out his contract.
Be interesting to see if other clubs are interested down the track.

[Danjul]

O

The trouble with Roberts is he is no good when the ball hits the ground. Both Morris and Rance are good at second efforts, 1%ers, and picking up the ball off the ground.

Exactly.

picking up the ball off the ground is a possession. And Roberts has shown that he can get them, even though in the 2016 finals his role was to hit the ball to the two sweepers. And that tactic worked very well.

And you fail to address how Roberts can get more possessions in a game than Crozier and Trengove combined and be dropped.

Also interesting to look at Cordy ‘s possessions. In many games you can count his kicks on one hand. He is averaging 4 kicks per game this year. And where do they go?

The more I think about it the more I suspect that the club plays favourites, and that is why it is not competitive. The results since mid 2017 have been terrible and many team selections have been mysterious.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

O

picking up the ball off the ground is a possession. And Roberts has shown that he can get them, even though in the 2016 finals his role was to hit the ball to the two sweepers. And that tactic worked very well.

And you fail to address how Roberts can get more possessions in a game than Crozier and Trengove combined and be dropped.

Also interesting to look at Cordy ‘s possessions. In many games you can count his kicks on one hand. He is averaging 4 kicks per game this year. And where do they go?

The more I think about it the more I suspect that the club plays favourites, and that is why it is not competitive. The results since mid 2017 have been terrible and many team selections have been mysterious.

You keep overlooking or ignoring the fact, as I have pointed out above, that the single point of data you keep referring to is not of itself instructive as a performance measure.
You are saying:
1. Numbers of kicks, on their own are THE key stat for measuring performance.
2. If player A has more kicks than player C, D or E then player A unequivocally played better than the others.
3. If Player A is dropped, despite having had more kicks, then they are a scapegoat.

You are either willfully ignoring the other multiple variables i have pointed out (as but just a few that would be considered by coaches) because they don't support your narrative. Or else you have mistakenly overlooked these and as a result have come to an inaccurate conclusion.

[Danjul]

You keep overlooking or ignoring the fact, as I have pointed out above, that the single point of data you keep referring to is not of itself instructive as a performance measure.
Wood 5, are saying:
1. Numbers of kicks, on their own are THE key stat for measuring performance.
2. If player A has more kicks than player C, D or E then player A unequivocally played better than the others.
3. If Player A is dropped, despite having had more kicks, then they are a scapegoat.

You are either willfully ignoring the other multiple variables i have pointed out (as but just a few that would be considered by coaches) because they don't support your narrative. Or else you have mistakenly overlooked these and as a result have come to an inaccurate conclusion.

my whole complaint is that there is only one data point .

The guy got one game and was dropped when he was competitive- in my opinion.

The other variables you mentioned are nice to have but possessions and kicks should not be ignored.

In the game I used as an example we had

Kicks: Wood 5, Trengove 0, Crozier 6, Cordy 8, Williams 8, Naughton 9, JJ 10, Roberts 12.

10 of the 22 players had less possessions than Roberts. The only backman to have more was JJ (+5).

Roberts had 4 marks, more than any other backman. The most for team on the day was 6.

Roberts had 0 clangers, except for Naughton the others had 1.

The result was a big defeat. Roberts was banished. The others got plenty of games and the team went on to have a bad year. This year is not much of an improvement.

ItÂ’s only my opinion but I think Roberts had a good day and still has potential.

ItÂ’s only my opinion but the most important selection input should be previous weekÂ’s performance ( and not whatever has been used for the last 30 games).

And yes, I am being wilful. Most of the variables are rubbish if the players are not getting the ball and kicking it frequently.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

The trouble with Roberts is he is no good when the ball hits the ground. Both Morris and Rance are good at second efforts, 1%ers, and picking up the ball off the ground.



Exactly.

Roberts was good enough to play well in our Premiership team and has been rarely sighted since. A bit like Roughy and Campbell he is destined to be moved on and as a result can expect limited senior games in 2019.

[Ghost Dog]

Unless he’s marking an opposition kick I dispute the idea that it’s ever a ‘good’ idea to have the ball in Lakes hands.

He jagged a game for us V Melbourne in the forward line once. What a sweet win that was.

[Bullies]

Can see Roberts running around with another club next year doing a Roughead down back and us having Daniel in the last line of defense against Cameron/Lynch.

[Axe Man]

Has Sam been reading this thread?

Bulldog Fletcher Roberts would be swooped on in a mid-season trade period, writes Sam Landsberger

Fletcher Roberts is a walking, talking advertisement for why the AFL needs a mid-season trade period.

Roberts is a 25-year-old premiership full-back who appears to have had his papers stamped by Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge.

Roberts has just had three key defenders in front of him pulled out of the selection queue and still he can’t get a senior game.

Marcus Adams was traded to Brisbane, Dale Morris went down with a knee injury and Aaron Naughton was swung to full-forward.

That followed Joel Hamling’s defection to Fremantle after the premiership.

In 2019 it appears rookie Lachie Young and Lewis Young have leapfrogged him.

Surely if Beveridge was going to play Roberts it would’ve been in the first six rounds with the repeat omissions even confusing some of his teammates.

In fact, since Roberts signed a two-year contract extension midway through 2017 he has been on the outer.

“We’ve been really encouraged by Fletcher’s development, particularly the last 12 months,” former list boss Jason McCartney said.

“We look forward to watching him grow as a footballer over the next couple of years.”

Since that announcement Roberts has played 32 VFL games and just three AFL games.

It seems like the Dogs have queries over Roberts’ competitiveness and leg speed with Beveridge coaching the backline in a different direction.

Meanwhile, clubs searching the country for a key defender can’t consider a player who is AFL-fit and earning selection in the VFL best nearly every week.

Instead they are set to disrupt proud state-league clubs by plucking out their best players despite the fact they will need a long block of conditioning to play at AFL level.

Imagine if St Kilda — with Jake Carlisle or Dylan Roberton injured — or Melbourne — with Jake Lever and Steven May out — could offer the Dogs a third-round pick for Roberts later this month?

That would give Roberts the chance to prove his worth at the top level instead of having his value slowly whittled away.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure, and there are players at plenty of clubs in a similar boat.

It might be time to get past the threat of players taking intellectual property to another club and get with the times.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Has Sam been reading this thread?

Bulldog Fletcher Roberts would be swooped on in a mid-season trade period, writes Sam Landsberger

Fletcher Roberts is a walking, talking advertisement for why the AFL needs a mid-season trade period.

Roberts is a 25-year-old premiership full-back who appears to have had his papers stamped by Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge.

Roberts has just had three key defenders in front of him pulled out of the selection queue and still he can’t get a senior game.

Marcus Adams was traded to Brisbane, Dale Morris went down with a knee injury and Aaron Naughton was swung to full-forward.

That followed Joel Hamling’s defection to Fremantle after the premiership.

In 2019 it appears rookie Lachie Young and Lewis Young have leapfrogged him.

Surely if Beveridge was going to play Roberts it would’ve been in the first six rounds with the repeat omissions even confusing some of his teammates.

In fact, since Roberts signed a two-year contract extension midway through 2017 he has been on the outer.

“We’ve been really encouraged by Fletcher’s development, particularly the last 12 months,” former list boss Jason McCartney said.

“We look forward to watching him grow as a footballer over the next couple of years.”

Since that announcement Roberts has played 32 VFL games and just three AFL games.

It seems like the Dogs have queries over Roberts’ competitiveness and leg speed with Beveridge coaching the backline in a different direction.

Meanwhile, clubs searching the country for a key defender can’t consider a player who is AFL-fit and earning selection in the VFL best nearly every week.

Instead they are set to disrupt proud state-league clubs by plucking out their best players despite the fact they will need a long block of conditioning to play at AFL level.

Imagine if St Kilda — with Jake Carlisle or Dylan Roberton injured — or Melbourne — with Jake Lever and Steven May out — could offer the Dogs a third-round pick for Roberts later this month?

That would give Roberts the chance to prove his worth at the top level instead of having his value slowly whittled away.

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure, and there are players at plenty of clubs in a similar boat.

It might be time to get past the threat of players taking intellectual property to another club and get with the times.

If someone wants to throw around a 3rd round pick for Fletcher and he was deemed surplus to our needs, I'd be okay with it.