Post-flag plummet was always possible

[bulldogtragic]

This kind of rubbish is making this forum less and less attractive. Just move on to another side.

I said it at the time along with many others, read through the thread on it if you like. It's nothing new. If you don't like the forum, don't post. Don't read it. Some on here of can disagree with a point someone makes and not make it personal. You're not one, that's cool whatever. I'll also take my decisions on which club to invest my hard earned from me. But thanks for the free advice.

[azabob]

This kind of rubbish is making this forum less and less attractive. Just move on to another side.

Don’t leave BT, I enjoy reading your posts and wild hypotheticals.

[bulldogtragic]

Don’t leave BT, I enjoy reading your posts and wild hypotheticals.

I'm not going anywhere my friend. I'm big enough to say I'm wrong when it's evident (ie recently mischaracterising Lachies poor kicking and decision making as 'dumb'). I'm also happy to push back when posters decry the state of the forum, the same forum they use to tell members that they make the same forum less 'attractive' and offer advice to 'move on to another side'. Seems a tad ironic.

[Grantysghost]

I said it at the time along with many others, read through the thread on it if you like. It's nothing new. If you don't like the forum, don't post. Don't read it. Some on here of can disagree with a point someone makes and not make it personal. You're not one, that's cool whatever. I'll also take my decisions on which club to invest my hard earned from me. But thanks for the free advice.

How was it personal? I didnt abuse you, I disagreed with your comment and called it rubbish. If you cant process that without taking it personally, yet hammer the club and individuals you're clearly being hypocritical. You've got a clique and that's nice but I've seen absolutely zero facts to back up inane comments. I'll have a chat with Granty Tuesday night and see what he thinks about his own turning on him to satisfy their own unsubstantiated rantings.

[GVGjr]

I'll have a chat with Granty Tuesday night and see what he thinks about his own turning on him to satisfy their own unsubstantiated rantings.

I hope he is there, looking forward to hearing from the club myself

I'm not sure that challenging the comments by the club is the same turning against the club but that's your call.

[Before I Die]

I've read through the above posts* and I have to say that of all of them, Chris Grant's rings most true. I don't see it as spin, I see it as an honest reflection on the current situation and an acknowledgement that this was always going to be a possibility. We were far from the best team in 2016 except for a 4 week period. How important were Libba, Dickson, Picken and M Boyd over this 4 week period. Would we have been premiers without them? Would we have been finalists that year without them? It was obvious to blind Freddy that there was always a strong possibility that our aging warriors would deteriorate faster than our young players would come on. Plus the question of whether our young players could even maintain their own form without the experience and leadership of the veterans. This drop off wasn't a given, but it was a definite possibility with our age profile, particularly if we got injuries to key players. That is all Grant is saying.

Regarding other possible causes of our malaise. It could be this, it could be that, or it could be something else. Every supporter has a pet theory and is quick to see support for their theory in any poor performance. Poor recruiting, poor player development, poor fitness levels, poor match day coaching, poor list development, Eagleton. All the theories above may have some validity, maybe not Eagleton, but I think Grant nailed the most likely.

* prior to 5.30pm

[bulldogtragic]

How was it personal? I didnt abuse you, I disagreed with your comment and called it rubbish. If you cant process that without taking it personally, yet hammer the club and individuals you're clearly being hypocritical. You've got a clique and that's nice but I've seen absolutely zero facts to back up inane comments. I'll have a chat with Granty Tuesday night and see what he thinks about his own turning on him to satisfy their own unsubstantiated rantings.

Well, if you paid attention... I said someone obviously fed the line to Chris and that person should be outed. So tell the (presumably) PR/media person who gave it to him, and tell Chris not fall into feeding us their spin. It's kind of weird that your time with Chris is prioritised with asking him what some of us think about varying issues the club seems to failing in. I'd be asking him about how we will turn it around on field, how the new recruiters & Power are working or whether he thinks his daughter will get recruited. But ask him what some people are saying here, he'll say he's not losing any sleep, you can tell us all high and mighty, I'll say I'm not losing any sleep...

On 'fact less' and 'unsubstantiated'. Opinions are being offered, at lest by me, they're by their nature individual and open to interpretation of many things not necessarily the 'facts' as anyone else sees them. You can tell us to drink the coolaid that's fine, the world needs positively bright, optimistic, believers, but it doesn't mean we have to drink it if we don't want to. If you think you're better or more loyal member for telling me to find another side to follow, and things like taking your moral outrage to Chris, good for you, you're better than me. Now that this is established, surely there's something more constructive to put time into.

[Sedat]

I think the main issue some of us have with Granty's comments is that our actions since 2016 do not correlate at all with the premise of his comments. We gave multiple year contracts to players like Redders, Roberts, Clay Smith, Jong and Campbell, all of whom were 16-30 players on the list. This confidence in our list was reinforced when we made minimal list changes in the off-season after the flag. That says to me we were very happy with the list and only needed some minor tweaking to contend again, which is in complete contrast to Granty's comments.

The truth as always lies somewhere in between. But the comments were reactionary and only came to light in the knowledge that we are nowhere near contending in 2018.

The really good clubs can control the narrative and the message, and we've been very poor in this area the last 12 months. As others have pointed out we are flying off the field with no debt, record memberships and sponsorships, and an amazing deal to reclaim incredibly expensive public land for nothing to redevlop our home base. But none of these genuinely feel-good stories have cut through at all. That's 100% the fault of our communications dept and our off-field leaders.

[Grantysghost]

Well, if you paid attention... I said someone obviously fed the line to Chris and that person should be outed. So tell the (presumably) PR/media person who gave it to him, and tell Chris not fall into feeding us their spin. It's kind of weird that your time with Chris is prioritised with asking him what some of us think about varying issues the club seems to failing in. I'd be asking him about how we will turn it around on field, how the new recruiters & Power are working or whether he thinks his daughter will get recruited. But ask him what some people are saying here, he'll say he's not losing any sleep, you can tell us all high and mighty, I'll say I'm not losing any sleep...

On 'fact less' and 'unsubstantiated'. Opinions are being offered, at lest by me, they're by their nature individual and open to interpretation of many things not necessarily the 'facts' as anyone else sees them. You can tell us to drink the coolaid that's fine, the world needs positively bright, optimistic, believers, but it doesn't mean we have to drink it if we don't want to. If you think you're better or more loyal member for telling me to find another side to follow, and things like taking your moral outrage to Chris, good for you, you're better than me. Now that this is established, surely there's something more constructive to put time into.

So tell me what we could have done differently? Give me your blueprint for success. So far, I'm enjoying the debate but a little disappointed with the lack of reasoning behind some opinions other than amazing hindsight. To me, every time I challenge a ridiculous assumption, the responses dig a deeper hole of nonsense. What exactly are the facts behind these opinions?

[bulldogtragic]

I think the main issue some of us have with Granty's comments is that our actions since 2016 do not correlate at all with the premise of his comments. We gave multiple year contracts to players like Redders, Roberts, Clay Smith, Jong and Campbell, all of whom were 16-30 players on the list. This confidence in our list was reinforced when we made minimal changes in the off-season after the flag. That says to me we were very happy with the list and only needed some minor tweaking to contend again, which is in complete contrast to Granty's comments.

The truth as always lies somewhere in between. But the comments were reactionary and only in light of the fact that we are nowhere near contending in 2018.

The really good clubs can control the narrative and the message, and we've been very poor in this area the last 12 months. As other have pointed out we are flying off the field with no debt, record memberships and sponsorships, and an amazing deal to reclaim incredibly expensive public land for nothing to redevlop our home base. But none of these genuinely feel-good stories have cut through at all. That's 100% the fault of our communications dept and our off-field leaders.

That's it in a nutshell with our communications/media staff, be it the draft video, this reticle or not getting ahead adequately of Stringer and Alberti stories. They're self inflicted wounds which serve to drown out the good news stories. I hope that Bains conducts a full review on the area and fix it up ASAP.

To your points on this article. From round 1, 2017 we had our captain & AA Bob, club leading goal kicker Crameri & hard at it leader Mitch Wallis coming back into the 22. We had Cloke (another club leading goal kicker) coming into the side after convincing Bevo he would add value and played in round 1. I struggle to believe with these four coming in at R1 2017, we were actually thinking things would be going bad well before R1. I'd like to believe the article, but common sense overrides club bias/passion on this latest communication/media piece I'm afraid.

[bulldogtragic]

So tell me what we could have done differently? Give me your blueprint for success. So far, I'm enjoying the debate but a little disappointed with the lack of reasoning behind some opinions other than amazing hindsight. To me, every time I challenge a ridiculous assumption, the responses dig a deeper hole of nonsense. What exactly are the facts behind these opinions?

Feel free to dot point your issues or my rediculous assumptions and I'm happy to reply with clarification.

Edit: if you could please quote my posts with facts/opinions/my alternate blueprint for success/hindsight matters etc, that will make it easier to do the above.

[Before I Die]

I think the main issue some of us have with Granty's comments is that our actions since 2016 do not correlate at all with the premise of his comments. We gave multiple year contracts to players like Redders, Roberts, Clay Smith, Jong and Campbell, all of whom were 16-30 players on the list. This confidence in our list was reinforced when we made minimal list changes in the off-season after the flag. That says to me we were very happy with the list and only needed some minor tweaking to contend again, which is in complete contrast to Granty's comments.

The truth as always lies somewhere in between. But the comments were reactionary and only came to light in the knowledge that we are nowhere near contending in 2018.

The really good clubs can control the narrative and the message, and we've been very poor in this area the last 12 months. As others have pointed out we are flying off the field with no debt, record memberships and sponsorships, and an amazing deal to reclaim incredibly expensive public land for nothing to redevlop our home base. But none of these genuinely feel-good stories have cut through at all. That's 100% the fault of our communications dept and our off-field leaders.

Agree completely with your final paragraph.

I think the contracts indicated that the club did have confidence in the list and I don't see this as being at odds with Grants statement. Even with confidence in the group, a drop off was always a strong possibility for the reasons he gave. The pressure is now on the 100 gamers to step up and I think some may fail the test. Beefing up this group is the reason Trengrove and Crozier have been brought in. Unfortunately they are struggling with the test too.

[Grantysghost]

My question is what you think we could do differently?

[Grantysghost]

I've read through the above posts* and I have to say that of all of them, Chris Grant's rings most true. I don't see it as spin, I see it as an honest reflection on the current situation and an acknowledgement that this was always going to be a possibility. We were far from the best team in 2016 except for a 4 week period. How important were Libba, Dickson, Picken and M Boyd over this 4 week period. Would we have been premiers without them? Would we have been finalists that year without them? It was obvious to blind Freddy that there was always a strong possibility that our aging warriors would deteriorate faster than our young players would come on. Plus the question of whether our young players could even maintain their own form without the experience and leadership of the veterans. This drop off wasn't a given, but it was a definite possibility with our age profile, particularly if we got injuries to key players. That is all Grant is saying.

Regarding other possible causes of our malaise. It could be this, it could be that, or it could be something else. Every supporter has a pet theory and is quick to see support for their theory in any poor performance. Poor recruiting, poor player development, poor fitness levels, poor match day coaching, poor list development, Eagleton. All the theories above may have some validity, maybe not Eagleton, but I think Grant nailed the most likely.

* prior to 5.30pm

Replace Eagleton with Honeychurch. Other than that, spot on.

[Sedat]

To your points on this article. From round 1, 2017 we had our captain & AA Bob, club leading goal kicker Crameri & hard at it leader Mitch Wallis coming back into the 22. We had Cloke (another club leading goal kicker) coming into the side after convincing Bevo he would add value and played in round 1. I struggle to believe with these four coming in at R1 2017, we were actually thinking things would be going bad well before R1. I'd like to believe the article, but common sense overrides club bias/passion on this latest communication/media piece I'm afraid.

Yep, that's precisely where Granty's comments fail the sniff test for mine.