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Thread: Is it time...

  1. #1
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    Is it time...

    ... that we put a red card in the pocket of the umpires?

    Every year we seem to have on field incidents so abhorrent to get this discussion going again.

    I'm struggling to think of another professional sport on the planet that doesn't have the option to send a player from the field for an act of foul play.

    I'm struggling even more for a legitimate excuse for it not to happen in the AFL, particularly given it happens at EVERY other level of the sport.

    It need not mean a team plays short. You could replace the player on the field and still send the offending player to the dressing rooms.

    Happy, and genuinely curious, for an argument to the contrary.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is it time...

    I would support it but I have no confidence in the AFL or umpiring department they would get it right
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  4. #3
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    Re: Is it time...

    I support red and yellow cards. But I'd want a mandatory rugby (I think it's the code) like review immediately after the incident to confirm what the saw, was what actually happened to avoid staging/acting etc.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I support red and yellow cards. But I'd want a mandatory rugby (I think it's the code) like review immediately after the incident to confirm what the saw, was what actually happened to avoid staging/acting etc.
    Our game could borrow LOADS from Rugby and this is a prime example.

    You could be certain at least one of the boundary umpires would have seen the incident.

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by westdog54 View Post
    Our game could borrow LOADS from Rugby and this is a prime example.

    You could be certain at least one of the boundary umpires would have seen the incident.
    As I've said before, I've umpired goals, boundary and field umpire before up to some TAC stuff a long, long time ago. I've issued reports from all three roles. Sometimes you see stuff that others can't. From next year, there's four field umpires, four boundary umpires, two goal umpires, an emergency field, boundary and goal umpire, plus a score reviewer in the box watching the play. That's 11 umpires that can be on the field of play, two more stationary on the wing, plus an eye in the sky. That's 14 sets of eyes. If they could formalise a process beyond reports at the breaks, to various umpires coming together and using the eye in the sky to confirm, then we could have a proper way about getting thugs out of games. Not only 'sin binning' the individual with a mandatory report, but making the team play a player down is a hell of a deterant. If done right, conceived right, implemented right and executed right, then I don't see the down side of going to cards. With the last few years of really bad dog acts, it's probably overdue to be honest.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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    Re: Is it time...

    I don’t really like the thought of a third umpire doing some tribunal type adjudicating on the run. I know a Gaff type incident is pretty obvious that he is guilty and gets weeks - but most incidents involving someone getting knocked out are not as clear-cut.

    Very rare for an incident as blatant as Gaff’s to occur - I don’t believe you bring in a card system that can potentially create big problems and errors based on a couple of blatant incidences per year.

    I think the league has an ordinary track record of bringing in new rules or measures without considering the practical applications well enough, and this would be another one.

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  9. #7
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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozza View Post
    I don’t really like the thought of a third umpire doing some tribunal type adjudicating on the run. I know a Gaff type incident is pretty obvious that he is guilty and gets weeks - but most incidents involving someone getting knocked out are not as clear-cut.

    Very rare for an incident as blatant as Gaff’s to occur - I don’t believe you bring in a card system that can potentially create big problems and errors based on a couple of blatant incidences per year.

    I think the league has an ordinary track record of bringing in new rules or measures without considering the practical applications well enough, and this would be another one.

    Yep, I don't trust the current AFL admin to get something as important as thus right.

    By the time it was introduced it would be something like the Toyota Red Card (doesn't exist) system and a bunch of Gil's and Hockings' mates would all have been unnecessary jobs in the implementation and functioning of it, it would be worse than useless.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozza View Post
    I don’t really like the thought of a third umpire doing some tribunal type adjudicating on the run. I know a Gaff type incident is pretty obvious that he is guilty and gets weeks - but most incidents involving someone getting knocked out are not as clear-cut.

    Very rare for an incident as blatant as Gaff’s to occur - I don’t believe you bring in a card system that can potentially create big problems and errors based on a couple of blatant incidences per year.

    I think the league has an ordinary track record of bringing in new rules or measures without considering the practical applications well enough, and this would be another one.
    Ok, first things first: there is no "third umpire system" in rugby when it comes to foul play. The referee on the field views the same footage as the TMO and makes the Final decision on what card, if any, to issue.

    Second, what 'practical applications' are there to sending a player of the field for an act of foul play? Serious question.

    Third, straight red cards and ejections are rare in any sport that uses them. That's not a reason for the option not to be there. As an example, there have only ever been two issued in World Cup Finals and both were entirely justified. It has only happened once in over 50 Super bowls.

    Fourth, the potential for an error is not in itself as excuse not to make a change. Not by a long shot.

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by westdog54 View Post
    Ok, first things first: there is no "third umpire system" in rugby when it comes to foul play. The referee on the field views the same footage as the TMO and makes the Final decision on what card, if any, to issue.

    Second, what 'practical applications' are there to sending a player of the field for an act of foul play? Serious question.

    Third, straight red cards and ejections are rare in any sport that uses them. That's not a reason for the option not to be there. As an example, there have only ever been two issued in World Cup Finals and both were entirely justified. It has only happened once in over 50 Super bowls.

    Fourth, the potential for an error is not in itself as excuse not to make a change. Not by a long shot.
    That was a tradional welcome in the region Zinadene is from.

    I think there were more than 100 FA cup finals before anyone was ever sent off. It was a United player whose name I can't remember. They wouldn't let him collect his winners medal either.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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    Re: Is it time...

    I think you can have a red card (no happy with yellow/sin bin concept), but it would have to be strictly for incidents like the Gaff, Hall type - clearly violent, not in the course of play.

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    That was a tradional welcome in the region Zinadene is from.

    I think there were more than 100 FA cup finals before anyone was ever sent off. It was a United player whose name I can't remember. They wouldn't let him collect his winners medal either.
    Could you imagine a world where Ryan Shawcross stays on the field after breaking Aaron Ramsay's leg?

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by westdog54 View Post
    Could you imagine a world where Ryan Shawcross stays on the field after breaking Aaron Ramsay's leg?

    I'm not happy with having to share oxygen wth that little Herbert at all, so my answer is no.

    *!*!*!*!ing caveman.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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    Re: Is it time...

    AFL to consider red-card rule for 2019 - http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-0...-rule-for-2019

    I highly doubt the change will happen but I'll be watching this space nonetheless.

    The fact that they are considering getting around it by allowing a player injured by an act of foul play to be replaced by a substitute reeks of Steve Hocking trying to show everyone how damned clever he is.

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I would support it but I have no confidence in the AFL or umpiring department they would get it right
    Well said.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

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    Re: Is it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by FrediKanoute View Post
    I think you can have a red card (no happy with yellow/sin bin concept), but it would have to be strictly for incidents like the Gaff, Hall type - clearly violent, not in the course of play.
    Yeah for assault type incidents there is a real risk of people seeking revenge, or it generally getting further out of control. Hall needed to be sent off. He's that sort of player who might think ' f*** it I end my career here and take others with me'.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

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