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  1. #16
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Really enjoying the discussion, thanks to everyone so far
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  2. #17
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Non-guaranteed contracts are so prevalent in the model of US sports (at least in part) because of the nature of their player movement; guys get cut and signed at any time rather than just in the off-season, so non-guaranteed contracts are necessary to facilitate this movement.

    If we wanted a real US-system this would be adopted - I don't think it's really for the best, but the AFL do love dominating the news cycle.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  3. #18
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Non-guaranteed contracts are so prevalent in the model of US sports (at least in part) because of the nature of their player movement; guys get cut and signed at any time rather than just in the off-season, so non-guaranteed contracts are necessary to facilitate this movement.

    If we wanted a real US-system this would be adopted - I don't think it's really for the best, but the AFL do love dominating the news cycle.
    For whom- the league? The clubs? The players?
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  4. #19
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimPickens View Post
    For whom- the league? The clubs? The players?
    For the fans - hyperactive player movement can kill off the emotional connection that you have to a team and make the whole thing kind of soulless.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

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  6. #20
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    And players of questionable character, highly speculative, or prone to not performing once they have the safety of a contract often have none of it guaranteed and they need to perform or they get nothing. This is the full reality of the American system that the Australian players often bemoan not having.

    Players can also be traded against there will while under contract. So when a player's manager goes to the media and says X player wants to be traded to West Coast, despite being under contract, or they'll leave the next year as a free agent for nothing, the club can say fine we've just traded you to Gold Coast for a 1st round pick. Call X he's the footy manager at Gold Coast and he'll arrange your travel, good luck.
    Absolutely, if anything it will protect the Northern state clubs more. I find it amazing that a player will say, "i want to come back to Melbourne" and still gets to nominate a club. Sure come back to Melbourne, but surely the club should be allowed to negotiate with the club in Melbourne offering the best deal?
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  7. #21
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    For the fans - hyperactive player movement can kill off the emotional connection that you have to a team and make the whole thing kind of soulless.
    Guess it depends on whether you support the club or you support the players.
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  8. #22
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimPickens View Post
    Guess it depends on whether you support the club or you support the players.
    A club is not a club without the players.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  9. #23
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I like the idea in principle, though I'd be concerned about the components relating to injury and players being cut loose completely should they lose their ability to meet their contracted obligations from a performance perspective.

    However, I don't see how this will stop players from nominating their preferred club and breaking contracts as soon as the season is finished. Isn't the reason players break contracts so readily because they have a sweetheart deal ready to go elsewhere? If and once this type of contract becomes the norm, the market will adjust players will still hold the whip hand in terms of where they end up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    And players of questionable character, highly speculative, or prone to not performing once they have the safety of a contract often have none of it guaranteed and they need to perform or they get nothing. This is the full reality of the American system that the Australian players often bemoan not having.

    Players can also be traded against there will while under contract. So when a player's manager goes to the media and says X player wants to be traded to West Coast, despite being under contract, or they'll leave the next year as a free agent for nothing, the club can say fine we've just traded you to Gold Coast for a 1st round pick. Call X he's the footy manager at Gold Coast and he'll arrange your travel, good luck.
    This bit answers my question, I didn't see that side of it. Thanks.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  10. #24
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    This bit answers my question, I didn't see that side of it. Thanks.
    Sorry I missed your question along the way.

    Yep, if the player announces they don't want to be at your club anymore, then sell them to the highest bidder and move on.

    As it currently stands, if a player under-performs or gets injured they have the luxury of falling back on a guaranteed contract at their current club that will pay them the maximum they could negotiate at the time of signing. If they over-perform they can demand to break their contract and be traded to the club of their choosing who's offered them even more than they're getting now, otherwise they'll be sad and under-perform. It's all one way in the player's favour and it's ridiculous. You can be sure there'd be a lot less players putting their hand up demanding a trade while under contract if they know they're highly likely to be playing at Carlton or Gold Coast the next season.
    Western Bulldogs: We exist to win premierships

  11. #25
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    For the fans - hyperactive player movement can kill off the emotional connection that you have to a team and make the whole thing kind of soulless.
    Quote Originally Posted by SlimPickens View Post
    Guess it depends on whether you support the club or you support the players.
    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    A club is not a club without the players.
    I don't think we can underestimate the work the AFL, the players association and to some extent the clubs have done to disentangle the emotional attachment fans have with players.

    From the AFL's perspective they can't lose if a marquee or heart and soul player either stays at the one club and becomes a club icon, nor can they if said player is speculated to leave a club over a long period of time, or actually does. The latter two scenarios keeps them in the news cycle for longer, the former provides the feel good factor they love to cash in on from time to time.

    The reasons of the players association are clear, they want the most flexibility for their stakeholders. As for the clubs, they're pragmatists and understand that while fan backlash can be the result of key or loved players leaving, fans ultimately want to see wins on the board. Being able to remove or acquire players freely improves their chances of controlling the quality of their lists to produce wins more readily.

    I guess what I'm saying is that all stakeholders within the game - aside from fans - have been on this journey over a longer period of time than we might actually realise.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  13. #26
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Great topic and thanks to all who have commented so far - great read.

    Would I be correct in thinking this would also be really helpful with young players just drafted early?

    We have seen quite a few players leave in their first couple of years from clubs and in general, this has hurt those developing and interstate clubs. Say for example the current two year draftee contract went out to four years, with the first two being guaranteed and the second two being much higher but not guaranteed. This would mean player has certainty over where they are going and entitlement to earn good $$ if they fulfill their contract, but also give the club more negotiating power at the table should they want to hold that player to their initial contract or tear it up and let them leave.

    I really like this idea.

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  15. #27
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    A club is not a club without the players.
    Of course, unless that player *!*!*!*!s up completely. No player is bigger than the club....ever! I was at the game where Carey played his first game against North. I assure you people weren’t barracking for Wayne.
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  16. #28
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    And players of questionable character, highly speculative, or prone to not performing once they have the safety of a contract often have none of it guaranteed and they need to perform or they get nothing. This is the full reality of the American system that the Australian players often bemoan not having.

    Players can also be traded against there will while under contract. So when a player's manager goes to the media and says X player wants to be traded to West Coast, despite being under contract, or they'll leave the next year as a free agent for nothing, the club can say fine we've just traded you to Gold Coast for a 1st round pick. Call X he's the footy manager at Gold Coast and he'll arrange your travel, good luck.
    The trade clause is one I'd like to see included. Don't think it'd ever fly though....

    I look at the NBA and quite often, players get to where they want regardless. The better players actually negotiate shorter contracts to leverage their position more frequently and control where they go.

    If we see any further reductions in FA rules (ie lower threshold to qualify) it would be good to offset that with non guaranteed contracts and the ability to trade contracted players without consent.

  17. #29
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by wimberga View Post
    Great topic and thanks to all who have commented so far - great read.

    Would I be correct in thinking this would also be really helpful with young players just drafted early?

    We have seen quite a few players leave in their first couple of years from clubs and in general, this has hurt those developing and interstate clubs. Say for example the current two year draftee contract went out to four years, with the first two being guaranteed and the second two being much higher but not guaranteed. This would mean player has certainty over where they are going and entitlement to earn good $$ if they fulfill their contract, but also give the club more negotiating power at the table should they want to hold that player to their initial contract or tear it up and let them leave.

    I really like this idea.
    It’s a good point. An interesting thing that happens when a player is drafted in the NFL, they are not assured a contract (of course they will mostly get one) but there are cases when the don’t. Attitude, professional in preseason can be a big factor and cost players their job before they start. Like AFL they have to earn the right to be a Free Agent.
    "Loves a scrap....oh yeah & he's a pretty handy footballer as well"

  18. #30
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    Re: Non-Guaranteed Contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimPickens View Post
    Of course, unless that player *!*!*!*!s up completely. No player is bigger than the club....ever!.
    Of course
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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