Negativity? LOL. In Bevo we trust!

[Twodogs]

For me, Libba hasn’t been genuine A grade since 2016, it’s a real shame he went down this year as it would have been great to see his output in a year when his preseason was clearly better than the year before and by all accounts his head was in the game! So I’m sticking w McRae and Bont as the two genuine A graders we have today. Forgot about Dunkley - unless he improves his disposal though I’d rate him a B+ - above average but not elite. Hunter isn’t an A grader IMO, regardless of B&F, says everything that a first year player came 4th even though I’m delighted w Naughtons progress and year.

As for the pies midfield - I measure teams on consistent performances, not a single game. The GF means nothing to me in terms of assessing a teams actual midfield quality - the pies have depth and they have elite talent in there in spades. Doesn’t mean they’ll win GFs. Collingwood produced some outstanding performances across the year from thier midfield and through finals. Maybe we’ll be better than them one day but right now, and for next year we won’t in that part of the ground.

Coniglio has played 2 full seasons in 7 years! far from ultra reliable. Again - Shiel is equal
Part inside and outside for mine, he will slot nicely into thier structure but isn’t the ultimate answer and they paid overs big time. Given thier list though - Merrett, Heppell, McGrath (maybe tier 2) Sheil - even thier tier 2 zaharakas, Smith, stringer, parish can be damaging - I still see them as ahead of us today.

If you can't perform on Grand Final day then it doesn't really matter how well you play in the other matches. It's GF day that counts,anything else us just a tease.

[AshMac]

Ok. See - I’m pretty sure it means EVERYTHING. They were unable to deliver against a group including a couple of ‘replacement level’ mids (at best!) in Hutchings and Redden.

So tired about the hype over Collingwood’s mids...they have made one finals series in 4 years and were killed in the gf...they NEVER travel interstate and have things on their own terms at the mcg every week. Good stats and positive publicity does not mean they are a great midfield.

As for SC, he has played at least 18 games in 4 of his last 6 years...what exactly do you want?

If we were talking about glory you’d have a point, but we’re not, we’re talking about form.

Personally I don’t think one game is enough to call a team on form, might be the GF but it’s still one game. Over the year they were good in the middle, better than us. Next year likely the same.

In honesty, I’d call cogs and sheil pretty even for contribution but suggesting Sheil has had the easiest job in footy because cogs did the heavy lifting is absurd. I’d have him at the dogs in a heartbeat.

[Rocket Science]

Call me a negative Nellie but everyone recalls the kind of 2018 season we trotted out prior to the last month of it, right?

[EasternWest]

Call me a negative Nellie but everyone recalls the kind of 2018 season we trotted out prior to the last month of it, right?

I do. I'm negative about a lot of last year but positive about what we're working towards.

That work for you?

[bulldogtragic]

I think the answer is far more thoughtful and nuanced than pure winning, losing or positive/negative. I will do my best to explain what I mean.

The October-November period is trade and draft. The overall rating has to be overall. But Act 1 Trade, and Act 2 Draft can be independtaly assessed. So the overall period is yet to be determined. The trade period I don't think was a huge success. The old adage is you draft the best, and trade for need. The outgoing players compensation/trade didn't serve a current deficiency in the playing list. Of the incoming, I don't think I can say Duryea addressed a need, but Lloyd addresses one at a lower level. So we weren't able to address our list needs in a substantive way. At the same time, we didn't piss pick 7 away despite bullshit offers trying us on (nice try WCE/Geelong). We didn't stock up on list cloggers trying to satisfy the media pundits that we were aggressive. Missing Wingard did suck, no sugar coating it. I don't mind the Adams trade, we got our initial investment back and probably 200+ draft points next year. Dahl for 27 wasn't too far off the mark considering the AFEL manipulated the compo last year for Geelong and Ablett. Two wrongs wouldn't make a right, just highlights the corruption within this process and the AFEL. I guess the intangible factor is Dahl is gone to piss and moan on Instagram elsewhere and Adams can be miserable about his current club at another club. While doing the right thing by Roughy, a good club man. Culture is a factor too to a degree.

So all up we didn't address the needs as discussed. But we did strengthen our draft hand this year and next year, which is good considering we have West, Khamis, Kellett & Liberatore as potential linked players. Not inspiring but it's par. I don't think it's time to microwave our 2019 memberships, but I wouldn't do the opposite (putting it in the freezer?).

But we are at the intermission heading into Act 2. This is where we can take it from a par by 9th (moving to a golf metaphor), to well under par by the clubhouse. Pick 7 will be a very good player. West coming in guarateed, the high liklihood of Khamis coming in and a pick from 32-53 be it best available/Will Hayes/need based pick brings in the high end talent we desperately need to add in. Pick 7 sounds like a KPF (King), small forward (Rozee) or midfielder (various) - plus West (midfield/forward) & Khamis (athletic rebounder) (maybe Hayes in a Gowers like forward/pinch hit midfield role). So we are addressing needs, unfortunately on the slow version of development and not ready made. If draft night has West going 18+ and Khamis 35+, then the entire period will huge for the club. Which it could.

The other thing is, we've (as I understand it) rolled the Simon Dalrymple called 'Hurley Money' and we didn't commit this year to a Wingard or May. Plus we've cleaned out potential salaries of Dahl, Roughy & Adams (who would've been on OK coin too) (Redders, Biggs, Smith etc too). We may well be on the bare minimum salary cap level this year I'd say. This should allow us to sign Bontempelli to a long term generous deal, sign up the list of kids we need to sign and then still have a shot next trade period at a Kelly type - in addition to Kellett & Liberatore next year and our extra third rounder to use from Adams. Things look very positive on this salary cap front this year and beyond.

It's not all bad, it's not all good, so far as the trade period goes. But it's overall only half way through the round. But nail draft night, develop the kids (I think West could surprise like Dunkley's first year), sign up those we want signed up, headlines by Bontempelli and head into trade and draft period in 2019 with renewed vigour. So yes, we are par to maybe 1 under right now. But the wind is dying down and the opportunity to end the round 4-5 under is there for us. I can understand both the frustrated view and the very optimistic view, they're both right and wrong in a paradoxical sense to me. There's a lot of nuance and grey in between. The trade wasn't great, but it has allowed the draft to be potentially great with a couple of mature depth players and culture fixes. Before I put my membership in the freezer, I want to wait for the draft. But even the pessimist in me, feels quite positive about draft night and what it means going forward.

[Greystache]

Call me a negative Nellie but everyone recalls the kind of 2018 season we trotted out prior to the last month of it, right?

I do, but we were the youngest team to take the field nearly every week last season and we will be younger again next season, so the positive is we will win the youngest team dick measuring contest amongst the supporters of teams that aren't competing for anything else.

I guess you could find a negative in that nearly every part of our strategy seems to revolve around natural improvement as the players get older (goal kicking, injury rates, team cohesion) yet we exit a number of mature players every season and replace them with teenagers from the draft, but we're supposed to be blindly positive, so I'll overlook that inconvenient fact.

Maybe I just don't get as excited as some about the shiny new toy of a bunch of untried kids coming in from the draft. Mostly because I know the reality is half won't make it, a quarter will be battlers, which leaves a quarter (or 1-2 players in real terms) who'll be quality. Adding some mature known quality players would be a massive benefit to the list, but with the way we manage our public relations and our clinical phobia of paying a premium for good players, that's really only an option for other clubs.

[FrediKanoute]

Call me a negative Nellie but everyone recalls the kind of 2018 season we trotted out prior to the last month of it, right?

Yep. It starts in the pre-season. We arrived at the start of season 17 hungover from the joys of 2016. We arrived in 2018 5 weeks underdone, lost Libba and it went backwards from there. We need our conditioning guys to get things right from the off.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep. It starts in the pre-season. We arrived at the start of season 17 hungover from the joys of 2016. We arrived in 2018 5 weeks underdone, lost Libba and it went backwards from there. We need our conditioning guys to get things right from the off.

I'd argue we need new conditioning guys, and should've done already with a clean sweep like Graham Lowe initiated at Carlton. Wingard, May & Shiel or Pick 7, West & Khamis matters little if they're in the rehab groups for stints and multiple stints. The same people, doing the same thing as they've been doing, will wait for it.... Have the same player outcomes and results.

[Sedat]

I'd argue we need new conditioning guys, and should've done already with a clean sweep like Graham Lowe initiated at Carlton. Wingard, May & Shiel or Pick 7, West & Khamis matters little if they're in the rehab groups for stints and multiple stints. The same people, doing the same thing as they've been doing, will wait for it.... Have the same player outcomes and results.

If they take a conservative approach with their injury management and tick all the boxes they should be fine.

[jeemak]

I do, but we were the youngest team to take the field nearly every week last season and we will be younger again next season, so the positive is we will win the youngest team dick measuring contest amongst the supporters of teams that aren't competing for anything else.

I guess you could find a negative in that nearly every part of our strategy seems to revolve around natural improvement as the players get older (goal kicking, injury rates, team cohesion) yet we exit a number of mature players every season and replace them with teenagers from the draft, but we're supposed to be blindly positive, so I'll overlook that inconvenient fact.

Maybe I just don't get as excited as some about the shiny new toy of a bunch of untried kids coming in from the draft. Mostly because I know the reality is half won't make it, a quarter will be battlers, which leaves a quarter (or 1-2 players in real terms) who'll be quality. Adding some mature known quality players would be a massive benefit to the list, but with the way we manage our public relations and our clinical phobia of paying a premium for good players, that's really only an option for other clubs.

You're getting pretty dark these days GS. Reading the flavour of your posts over recent times kind of reminds me of how the Man in Black became what he did in Westworld...…..

Savaged by logic that doesn't apply to you, but is seemingly playing out through time and circumstances you have no control over.

Funny thing is, we added two mature players to our list and lost a few. So the test is whether those we added have a bigger impact than those we lost, and in terms of games likely to be played next year I think with Adams being unreliable and Roughead either never getting onto or staying on the park (or not being selected) we only really have the gap Dahl leaves.

So how does the absence of Dahl actually affect us? Materially this is the only area of exposure or loss that this trade period might determine. The club is probably betting on some improvement from younger players developing which I agree, is a bit of an issue without fitness continuity across the group. It's hard for players to develop in a system that is always changing. However, given Libba missed the entire year in 2018 it could be argued that he will bridge the gap.

I must stress that at this point in time I think Libba is completely unreliable across the board physically and mentally, if he falls over what you've stated could be a bit closer to reality than I've accounted for.

[Topdog]

Let's not forget that same Collingwood midfield got smashed West Coast twice in the finals, it wasn't just the GF.

[AshMac]

If you can't perform on Grand Final day then it doesn't really matter how well you play in the other matches. It's GF day that counts,anything else us just a tease.

That’s fair. You also have to get there.

[jeemak]

That’s fair. You also have to get there.

It's bullshit. Ask him how many GF's Kelvin Templeton played in.

[AshMac]

It's bullshit. Ask him how many GF's Kelvin Templeton played in.

Love trivia - but you didn’t give the multiple choice options.

it’s a fair point that if you dont turn up to the big dance it’s all for nought, though definitely not the measure of whether a side or player is good or better than another

[GVGjr]

Call me a negative Nellie but everyone recalls the kind of 2018 season we trotted out prior to the last month of it, right?

It was a tough season no doubt but plenty of players made progress and in time we will be better for it.
Finishing the season on such a positive note has the 'half full' in me looking forward to next season.