Welcome to the Bulldogs: Jordon Sweet

[mjp]

We seem to think we can treat players poorly and still expect them to sign on with us. Didn't work with Dunkley or Young and won't work with Sweet.

Dunks was a highly paid, premiership winning, B&F winner? How was he treated poorly??
Young? We drafted him and he got some games...as many as he's getting at Carlton. We offered him a contract and he decided to go to the blues for opportunity...he's a replacement player there as well.
Sweet? We drafted him - 17 other clubs could have and didn't. He's clearly developed but is the #2 ruckman at a club where the #1 has just been AA nominated...I do feel for him but that's circumstances not mistreatment. He HAS a contract offer - so he's wanted...if he goes elsewhere for more chances...well, good luck to him.

I don't think these guys have been mistreated.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Dunks was a highly paid, premiership winning, B&F winner? How was he treated poorly??
Young? We drafted him and he got some games...as many as he's getting at Carlton. We offered him a contract and he decided to go to the blues for opportunity...he's a replacement player there as well.
Sweet? We drafted him - 17 other clubs could have and didn't. He's clearly developed but is the #2 ruckman at a club where the #1 has just been AA nominated...I do feel for him but that's circumstances not mistreatment. He HAS a contract offer - so he's wanted...if he goes elsewhere for more chances...well, good luck to him.

I don't think these guys have been mistreated.

Dunkley and Young were played out of position. Dunkley did a lot of ruck work which I'm sure he had no desire at all to do. Young was an intercepting defender who we played in ruck and up forward. Now Smith wants midfield time but we're playing him up forward or on a wing. I don't blame these guys for looking elsewhere.

[mjp]

Dunkley and Young were played out of position. Dunkley did a lot of ruck work which I'm sure he had no desire at all to do. Young was an intercepting defender who we played in ruck and up forward. Now Smith wants midfield time but we're playing him up forward or on a wing. I don't blame these guys for looking elsewhere.

"a LOT" of ruck work?? Please. He did 'a bit' - and basically none last year...he still left. Bigger story there I reckon.

I think you should ask Young if he would prefer to be playing this weekend as a backup ruckman/forward or sitting in the stands watching? 'Cos he's going to be doing the latter.

Bazza - no arguments from me - he probably is an inside mid and needs more time there. But he is also behind a few - Bont, Liber, Treloar - and needs to bide his time like every young player.

I'm not sure what you want - only 22 play and there are limited spots in each position.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

"a LOT" of ruck work?? Please. He did 'a bit' - and basically none last year...he still left. Bigger story there I reckon.

I think you should ask Young if he would prefer to be playing this weekend as a backup ruckman/forward or sitting in the stands watching? 'Cos he's going to be doing the latter.

Bazza - no arguments from me - he probably is an inside mid and needs more time there. But he is also behind a few - Bont, Liber, Treloar - and needs to bide his time like every young player.

I'm not sure what you want - only 22 play and there are limited spots in each position.

I'm not suggesting they are the primary reasons players leave but they probably don't help. If you're Dunkley and hate pinch hitting in the ruck, suddenly you're more open to considering other options if they come along. The same could happen with Baz.

I agree we are crowded on the midfield space but if we value Smith highly we should start to think about other roles for Libba, Treloar or Macrae and prioritise Baz who is the future of the midfield.

Sweet and Young are barely AFL quality so it's understandable that we don't always cater to their requirements. Replacing them isn't as difficult. But high calibre players like Dunkley and Smith we need to ensure we keep them happy and playing in their best position. Yes Dunkley didn't ruck in 2022 but his mind was made up back in 2020. He was basically our 2nd ruck in the covid years. I'm sure it was primarily other reasons he left but you can't help but wonder if he would have been a little more content if he had never rucked.

[mjp]

I'm not suggesting they are the primary reasons players leave but they probably don't help. If you're Dunkley and hate pinch hitting in the ruck, suddenly you're more open to considering other options if they come along. The same could happen with Baz.
...

Yep - that's all fair enough (I cut the quote down for space)...I guess I just bristle a bit with the 'mistreated' narrative because I just think it's an unfair narrative.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yep - that's all fair enough (I cut the quote down for space)...I guess I just bristle a bit with the 'mistreated' narrative because I just think it's an unfair narrative.

Yes perhaps mistreated was a poor word choice on my part. From all reports we have some of the better player treatment going around.

[Danjul]

Yep - that's all fair enough (I cut the quote down for space)...I guess I just bristle a bit with the 'mistreated' narrative because I just think it's an unfair narrative.

Sorry, I don?t.

Lets look at the trajectory of two young players starting their AFL careers with the Bulldogs. One mentioned here and a more recent one for comparison. Both natural backmen.

Young: 1st season - 7 games. Possessions: 8 8 10. 11. 16. 16 21. Got 6 games in the next 3 years.

JOD: 1st 7 games - possessions: 4. 4. 5. 5. 6. 8. 10.

I assume everyone can see what has happened here. JOD has been half as good on this metric. Everyone loves him so much that the coach can bask in the limelight of his spectacular selection prowess. Clearly we have a star for endless seasons into the future is the WOOF description.

I think he has talent and is developing well, but he has been treated very differently from some other players. Coachs pet comes to mind.

He played poorly as a forward and still got selected. But lately we have seen a pattern with poorly performing forwards staying in the team to develop skills.

Good on him, got some good luck and I am confident that he is going to be an asset.

Young left and got more games in one year with a new club than he got in five years with the Dogs. Good on him.

Even though he is fading he will always be able to say he tried and got some success. Personally I think he had talent, but unfortunately he was simply stuffed around and not developed.

He shouldn?t complain though, He was the preferred ruckman when Dunkley clearly cracked it and the cupboard was bare except for Sweet.

[SquirrelGrip]

Sorry, I don?t.

Lets look at the trajectory of two young players starting their AFL careers with the Bulldogs. One mentioned here and a more recent one for comparison. Both natural backmen.

Young: 1st season - 7 games. Possessions: 8 8 10. 11. 16. 16 21. Got 6 games in the next 3 years.

JOD: 1st 7 games - possessions: 4. 4. 5. 5. 6. 8. 10.

I assume everyone can see what has happened here. JOD has been half as good on this metric. Everyone loves him so much that the coach can bask in the limelight of his spectacular selection prowess. Clearly we have a star for endless seasons into the future is the WOOF description.

I think he has talent and is developing well, but he has been treated very differently from some other players. Coachs pet comes to mind.

He played poorly as a forward and still got selected. But lately we have seen a pattern with poorly performing forwards staying in the team to develop skills.

Good on him, got some good luck and I am confident that he is going to be an asset.

Young left and got more games in one year with a new club than he got in five years with the Dogs. Good on him.

Even though he is fading he will always be able to say he tried and got some success. Personally I think he had talent, but unfortunately he was simply stuffed around and not developed.

He shouldn?t complain though, He was the preferred ruckman when Dunkley clearly cracked it and the cupboard was bare except for Sweet.

This is a completely false narrative. We have no visibility on this board of a player’s communication, training effort, and following of coach’s direction.

Young may have played more games in one year for Carlton than with us. Of course he did, as they saw something we didn’t. Interestingly as the year progressed Carlton have managed him out of the team as well. This is telling.

I think Young was the opposite to stuffed around and not developed. He was given opportunities in multiple positions to find where he could be of most value. We would have kept him on but he chose to go somewhere where he thought he could get a regular game.

[Danjul]

This is a completely false narrative. We have no visibility on this board of a player?s communication, training effort, and following of coach?s direction.

Young may have played more games in one year for Carlton than with us. Of course he did, as they saw something we didn?t. Interestingly as the year progressed Carlton have managed him out of the team as well. This is telling.

I think Young was the opposite to stuffed around and not developed. He was given opportunities in multiple positions to find where he could be of most value. We would have kept him on but he chose to go somewhere where he thought he could get a regular game.

Young started playing in 2017, a year after Cordy. They are getting to the end of their careers. There?s nothing telling about it. Stop denigrating the guy.

It didn?t work out for him with us so he wisely moved on before it was too late. He got games in a team that was above the Dogs for most of the time and now others are passing him going the other way.

He can look back on a couple of finals so his time wasn?t totally wasted.

[hujsh]

Young started playing in 2017, a year after Cordy. They are getting to the end of their careers. There?s nothing telling about it. Stop denigrating the guy.

It didn?t work out for him with us so he wisely moved on before it was too late. He got games in a team that was above the Dogs for most of the time and now others are passing him going the other way.

He can look back on a couple of finals so his time wasn?t totally wasted.

What?

[bornadog]

What?

Young is 24 years old

[Danjul]

Young is 24 years old

If they can?t lock in a position after six seasons a player usually isn?t going to. I don?t expect that he will get many more games.

Could be kept as a backup for a while but every year there is more competition for a limited number of positions. His most recent games were filling in the ruck weren?t they? Not much future for him there.

[bornadog]

If they can?t lock in a position after six seasons a player usually isn?t going to. I don?t expect that he will get many more games.

Could be kept as a backup for a while but every year there is more competition for a limited number of positions. His most recent games were filling in the ruck weren?t they? Not much future for him there.

Tall players mature from age 24 plus. He should be hitting his peak but he isn't good enough.

[hujsh]

If they can?t lock in a position after six seasons a player usually isn?t going to. I don?t expect that he will get many more games.

Could be kept as a backup for a while but every year there is more competition for a limited number of positions. His most recent games were filling in the ruck weren?t they? Not much future for him there.

So, why is it denigrating Young to say that much like at the Bulldogs, Carlton over time haven't felt he was quite up to the standard required to get regular games as a key defender? Especially if you feel his career is nearly over meaning other clubs must share that view.

[whythelongface]

So, why is it denigrating Young to say that much like at the Bulldogs, Carlton over time haven't felt he was quite up to the standard required to get regular games as a key defender? Especially if you feel his career is nearly over meaning other clubs must share that view.

It is hard fact rather than denigrating. Young wasn’t good enough, JOD has shown more in the 10 games he has played with us. Sure the stats may not indicate that but he looks more composed and self assured. Feel much more at ease with him in the backline than Young. Young is like Schache, shows potential but ultimately not good enough. Not a pot at either of them. Just the facts.