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  1. #1
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    *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    I don't want to tell anyone how to suck eggs, but we all know the game yesterday was:

    1/. A pre-season game.
    2/. A pre-season game played thousands of kms from home in unrealistic conditions.
    3/. A pre-season game played thousands of kms from home in unrealistic conditions against a team that played its first game against opposition last week.
    4/. A pre-season game played thousands of kms from home in unrealistic conditions against a team that played its first game against opposition last week...and the opposition they easily defeated last week also EASILY defeated another team (Hawthorn) yesterday who were ALSO having their first 'real' hit out.

    I know we are all frustrated after a couple of disappointing seasons, but COME ON. I have just read the match-day thread about a game we quite honestly dominated and lost by a kick because of a combination of poor i50's and poor goal kicking. With THREE (3) - yep, THREE (3) - of our most likely goal-kickers in Dickson, Schache and 'The Fergus' not playing...

    It's gonna be alright.

    I agree it probably would have been helpful to move Richards back in JJ's absence - or have another runner behind the ball - but I don't think a lot of 'match day' coaching was going on. And yes, Easton Wood was disappointing but we haven't got to round 1 yet...he is the captain of the side and a lot better than he showed...

    It's gonna be alright.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  3. #2
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    You’re right but I’m also pretty sure we were saying “it’s only the pre-season” the past 2 years when we were missing targets, kicking blindly inside 50 and missing goals from 20m out. If we’re foxing and have some sort of different game plan/style about to be unleashed that we decided not to display last night, I’ll happily eat my words of concern.

    But what we saw last night was: no genuine ruck option, a very ‘unconventional’ forward set up (if we are relying on Shaq, Dickson and Ferg to transform us we’re in trouble) a bunch of poor ball users down back and a fairly one paced midfield. None of that changes at Marvel Stadium and it screams red flags IMO
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  5. #3
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    I think I read this last year after the first few outings also... we finished 13th.
    Western Bulldogs: We exist to win premierships

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  7. #4
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Prove us wrong Bulldogs

  8. #5
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Bit surprised by the negative sentiment in general tbh - lots of positives IMO.

    Loved our ground work, and our core group of ‘senior players’ all look in top nick.

    It also seems Bevo is a coach that simulates the season, whilst clearly experimenting in JLT games. Think he’ll go a tall fwd line next week and hopefully play English in ruck 80%.

  9. #6
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    ...if we are relying on Shaq, Dickson and Ferg to transform us we’re in trouble...
    Why? What is wrong with those three players? Why couldn't they transform us?

    We are talking about a PROVEN medium size goal-scorer in Dickson, a number 2 overall draft pick who has played 40-games and showed a lot of positive signs during 2018 and a tall, hard leading young player with telescopic arms who is a tough match-up.

    Of course I would have been happier had we come out and blitzed it last night, but for goodness sakes - consigning the team to 13th (or WORSE) on the basis of a single game and suggesting that 'nothing has changed' is just crazy talk.

    There were some pretty positive things in last nights performance and despite our bunch of poor ball users and one paced midfield we genuinely dominated possession (and territory) throughout the game...the glass half empty approach is absolutely driving me insane. I know we are on here to discuss the game and 'tell it how you see it', but for goodness sake. I am seeing calls for Sweet to play in the ruck as if a kid off the rookie list who is 10000 miles off the pace is going to be the saviour? English is going to be alright. Trengrove is going to be alright. Witts getting every hit-out should not be a surprise - he is a bloody good tap ruckman. Gold Coast are being dismissed as opposition when they are actually pretty talented and their list is filled with high draft picks and more to the point, players who genuinely want to be there...Dew is a good coach. This time last year 'everyone' was saying North wouldn't win a game...as it turned out, they were pretty ok.

    It's a pre-season game. The coach said he was using the game to look at a few things and get some conditioning into players...pretty sure those comments aren't reflective of a team that is at 100% full-strength.

    And for those who read similar comments last year 'as well', good. Let me know how going into a season with a negative, hyper-critical supporter base helped the team last season? You reckon all the groans and 'bad vibes' that seemed present at so many games HELPED us play good footy? It wasn't until late in the year when all was lost and the pressure was off that things started rolling...

    I know I am ranting now but why does everyone say 'it doesn't matter what happens in the pre-season' then dissect the performance as if it means something? This game is supposed to be fun for us as well as the players - hell, we are all supposed to be on the SAME SIDE - but sometimes you have to wonder. Hunter is our reigning B&F winner and is criticised mercilessly - it wasn't his greatest ever game but he ran pretty hard and had it 30+ times. Wood is the captain and his place in the team is questioned - after a single pre-season game played in FNQ that we lost by a GOAL. Can't we just look at the positives, suggest that those who battled will be 'better for the run' and look forward to the opportunities still to be given to those who stayed home?
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  10. #7
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Prove us wrong Bulldogs
    I think that's how I'll see it from here on. My expectations are as low as they could possibly be, bottom 4 IMO. The story seemed similar last night to what has been repeated over the past 2 seasons. If it wasn't so similar I'd wipe it off as a kick and giggle in the preseason.

    We'll see how it goes.......

  11. #8
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Why? What is wrong with those three players? Why couldn't they transform us?

    We are talking about a PROVEN medium size goal-scorer in Dickson, a number 2 overall draft pick who has played 40-games and showed a lot of positive signs during 2018 and a tall, hard leading young player with telescopic arms who is a tough match-up.
    There's nothing wrong with them, but relying on an increasingly injury prone Dickson and two completely unproven forwards in Schache and especially Fergus to fix our forward issues is overly optimistic in my opinion. None of them are going to be much use under the high ball inside 50 our team seems utterly dedicated to executing over and over.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Of course I would have been happier had we come out and blitzed it last night, but for goodness sakes - consigning the team to 13th (or WORSE) on the basis of a single game and suggesting that 'nothing has changed' is just crazy talk.
    What has changed from the end of 2018 to now, based on what you have seen across the pre-season and last night, that suggests we're on the rise?

    In 2015 and 2016, you could just tell we had a game plan and squad that would catch other teams unawares. We passed the eye test in those pre-season games and the results followed. I can't see why 2019 will buck the trend.

    And I don't know if I buy into the idea of negative fans leading to negative results. The groans and criticism would be non-existent if we were playing well and showing forward progress.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  13. #9
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    4/. A pre-season game played thousands of kms from home in unrealistic conditions against a team that played its first game against opposition last week...and the opposition they easily defeated last week also EASILY defeated another team (Hawthorn) yesterday who were ALSO having their first 'real' hit out.
    I'm not sure if you caught much of the BL v Haw game, but the Haw team was pretty much unrecognisable and due to personnel issues had their best player in that team playing out of position.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I know we are all frustrated after a couple of disappointing seasons, but COME ON. I have just read the match-day thread about a game we quite honestly dominated and lost by a kick because of a combination of poor i50's and poor goal kicking. With THREE (3) - yep, THREE (3) - of our most likely goal-kickers in Dickson, Schache and 'The Fergus' not playing...

    It's gonna be alright..
    So were pinning our hopes on a 31yo who has played 17 games in 2 seasons & 2 kids who show promise, but are both still extremely raw? Will be interesting to see how we try and fit everyone in if those 3 are all to play in our best team.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I agree it probably would have been helpful to move Richards back in JJ's absence - or have another runner behind the ball - but I don't think a lot of 'match day' coaching was going on. And yes, Easton Wood was disappointing but we haven't got to round 1 yet...he is the captain of the side and a lot better than he showed...
    But with JJ missing for a bit you would think it would be a priority to look at our options for a running defender who can help set up play.. it seemed from last night that it will be Duryea who is given first crack, but is that his go? I'm not sure.... we had Suckling playing as a hit up forward, and not doing much when he was probably more suited to heading down back. I guess we will find out against St.Kilda what our line of thinking is.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post

    I know I am ranting now but why does everyone say 'it doesn't matter what happens in the pre-season' then dissect the performance as if it means something? This game is supposed to be fun for us as well as the players - hell, we are all supposed to be on the SAME SIDE - but sometimes you have to wonder. Hunter is our reigning B&F winner and is criticised mercilessly - it wasn't his greatest ever game but he ran pretty hard and had it 30+ times. Wood is the captain and his place in the team is questioned - after a single pre-season game played in FNQ that we lost by a GOAL. Can't we just look at the positives, suggest that those who battled will be 'better for the run' and look forward to the opportunities still to be given to those who stayed home?
    Hunter always runs hard, he is absolutely elite at getting down back to create an option, but his ability to set-up further afield isn't where it needs to be... he just doesn't distribute the ball as well as we need him to and it is a cause for frustration. Our game style & personnel doesn't help the situation because due to limited distributors from defence we really need the likes of Hunter to get back to assist more than perhaps we should.

    Anyway not sure anyone is hanging the team on one game, but the fact that we are all 'footy hungry' means that once the ball is bounced, regardless of being a pre-season game or not we are all watching, looking for improvement in game style, and generally the areas that have held us back over the past couple of years.. on that performance not much has, but we wait in hope that things will be better when we next hit the ground, lets hope they are.

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  15. #10
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    I agree with you mjp it wasn't all doom and gloom.

    Shaq, Dicko and Ferg are our most natural forwards but seems they are currently not in our best 24 players at the moment. All 3 played VFL yesterday and are not injured. Looks like Bevo rates English higher then the Shaq, Lloyd higher then Dicko and Suckers higher then Ferg in the forward line.

    I don't believe English, Trengove and Shaq can all play in the same team, we will be far too slow, especially when we are playing 3 talls in defense who are also slow. Hopefully by years end, English can play 80% of the game in the ruck and the Shaq can provide a chop out. Trengove needs to provide more up forward if he is to remain in the team but hasn't shown much to get excited about over the last 12 months.

    Seems like Lloyd offers more around the ground then Dicko but we are crying for some natural forwards that can finish off the good work.

  16. #11
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    I'm not sure if you caught much of the BL v Haw game, but the Haw team was pretty much unrecognisable and due to personnel issues had their best player in that team playing out of position.
    Only saw bits of the first half (was at wedding). But Brisbane looked to have a similar list of names to last week when GC waxed them...half way through the first quarter last night it was 4 goals to zero - which means we won the rest of the game by 4 goals which I think would have been a result everyone was comfortable with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    So were pinning our hopes on a 31yo who has played 17 games in 2 seasons & 2 kids who show promise, but are both still extremely raw? Will be interesting to see how we try and fit everyone in if those 3 are all to play in our best team.
    Well - this is where I get frustrated. All I have been reading on this site is about our depth and how much talent we have - and my lament (yep, I couldn't agree with myself any more here) has been that we have 'depth' because we have a whole heap of guys who basically haven't done a single, quantifiable thing...so under the Sockeye Salmon '20-game-rule' we all think 'the best' of them. The players I mentioned have shown - as they showed in the VFL yesterday - an ability to ACTUALLY KICK A GOAL. Believe it or not, that is a skill. Guys who kick goals in the under 8's, tend to kick goals in the AFL (and every level in between). Those who don't, don't. So that is why I am frustrated with the negativity about them...they WILL KICK GOALS. The Fergus came in last year and immediately started having shots on goal every game...he is a forward and a goal-kicker. So is Dickson.

    Players who WONT kick goals as forwards? Pretty much everyone else! If I am frustrated with anything at the moment, it is the continued use of Trengrove as a forward...he has played more than 100 AFL games and never has he been a dangerous forward...it isn't going to start now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    But with JJ missing for a bit you would think it would be a priority to look at our options for a running defender who can help set up play.. it seemed from last night that it will be Duryea who is given first crack, but is that his go? I'm not sure.... we had Suckling playing as a hit up forward, and not doing much when he was probably more suited to heading down back. I guess we will find out against St.Kilda what our line of thinking is.
    See, I just think that's harsh on Duryea...it's his first game with the club. Suckling has kicked goals as both a winger and half back and kicked one last night to go along with a few i50's. I don't think playing him as a forward is necessarily a bad idea...we are playing this 'get it over the back' style and who better than Suckling to be trying to enter the ball that way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Hunter always runs hard, he is absolutely elite at getting down back to create an option, but his ability to set-up further afield isn't where it needs to be... he just doesn't distribute the ball as well as we need him to and it is a cause for frustration. Our game style & personnel doesn't help the situation because due to limited distributors from defence we really need the likes of Hunter to get back to assist more than perhaps we should.
    See, I thought he played a solid game and was far from the biggest problem. I also think we are seriously under-rating the GC mids (led by Witts, Miller and Fiorini) who are going to be pretty good. Miller was Vic Metro captain and is a good leader and organiser...should Hunter be a better player? Probably - but I just think the criticism of him based on last night is over the top and he SHOULD have a few credits in the bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Anyway not sure anyone is hanging the team on one game, but the fact that we are all 'footy hungry' means that once the ball is bounced, regardless of being a pre-season game or not we are all watching, looking for improvement in game style, and generally the areas that have held us back over the past couple of years.. on that performance not much has, but we wait in hope that things will be better when we next hit the ground, lets hope they are.
    I think you know I value your opinion mate but once upon a time the pre-season was a chance to look at the kids and get to recognise the mature age recruits who have converted to the tri-colour...turning the game in non-afl conditions into a referendum on our list, team structure and game-style (which reading the match day thread this morning is how it felt) just seems to be insane.

    Yes - we will watch with interest this week against the Saints (who won yesterday) but when we do, we should remember that the game is about PREPARATION not points and that if you think the output of Bont, Macrae, Hunter, Morris and our other A-graders is at mid-season level in JLT round 2, you just need to relax and ENJOY watching the boys play footy.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  17. #12
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Top 8 if we stay injury free.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

  18. #13
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post


    I know I am ranting now but why does everyone say 'it doesn't matter what happens in the pre-season' then dissect the performance as if it means something? This game is supposed to be fun for us as well as the players - hell, we are all supposed to be on the SAME SIDE - but sometimes you have to wonder. Hunter is our reigning B&F winner and is criticised mercilessly - it wasn't his greatest ever game but he ran pretty hard and had it 30+ times. Wood is the captain and his place in the team is questioned - after a single pre-season game played in FNQ that we lost by a GOAL. Can't we just look at the positives, suggest that those who battled will be 'better for the run' and look forward to the opportunities still to be given to those who stayed home?
    To be fair the question is based on 2-3 years of form. Last night provided a few examples (kicking and defensive bodywork) that caused me to reflect on that period but was not the sole cause of the question.

  19. #14
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    We only played 4 extra players , Gold Coast played 8 and rotated them through the game.
    I rather we play as close to the real rules than running 8 when you can’t in a real game.
    Bring back the biff

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  21. #15
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    Re: *** Release the NEGATIVITY ***

    I guess the negativity is because we looked and played like we have over the last two seasons, not much to get excited about atm.

    Hell show us we have learnt, changed, progressed, evolved etc whatever and I'll start getting excited.
    The curse is dead.

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