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  1. #1
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    Selection? What a cop out!!!

    So - I had to go and calm down for a few hours after the game (my 2x whippets have still not returned to the lounge-room for fear of more furniture being upturned) - but I am reading a heap on the forum about the 'problem' today being the selection of Hayes and Young over Trengove and Lipinski.

    Sorry guys and gals, but that is just abject rubbish.

    Cripps and Sammy Seaton had 50 touches between them at HALF TIME. We have SENIOR PLAYERS in the midfield - yep, Bont, Macrae, Hunter etc - who continue to want things on their own terms. At some point someone had to actually lift their intensity and attack on the contest to meet that brought by the opposition.

    I will acknowledge that (yet again) critical turnovers and missed goals played a huge part in the result - and there really is no excuse for the misses by Gowers and Toby (particularly when you consider the improvement shown by Casboult over the past 3 years demonstrated by that remarkable kick in the last q) but we can only go to that well so many times.

    Hayes and Young had nothing to do with this. Blame the blokes in the centre square who were simply beaten to the ball in the contest...Cripps was EPIC (can I say 'I taught him that'), Seaton and Fisher (I taught him that too!) were willing lieutenants and that's how the game was won (and done).

    This was about effort, concentration and willingness to run - they had it, we didn't. We have been reading our own publicity about stoppage wins and contested ball and rolled up to work today thinking it was going to be easy.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  2. #2
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    With due respect the selection of the side was disgusting. Carlton play a very tall team and have players who can actually mark the thing, they aren’t Sydney who have Franklin (who isn’t strong overhead) and Reid and treacle slow team.. we didn’t have Suckling who has been immense at helping out our defence this year. Throwing Lachlan Young to the wolves will do shitloads for his confidence. Wood is a shadow of his former best, Cordy is at best a 2nd or 3rd tall and is getting exposed.

    Our midfield got smashed, but why didn’t we put Dunkley on Cripps (like we did late last year, and who was quite effective), why did we put Williams and Gowers into our primary midfield rotations when Libba was sucking eggs at HF?

    The lack of accountability in the midfield was there for all of us to see, but we were set up to fail given our line-up & both teams form lines.

  3. #3
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    With due respect the selection of the side was disgusting.
    The EFFORT of the players was worse.

    Wouldn't have mattered who we picked if the mids - our best players - wont compete.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  4. #4
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Agree that our mids just didn’t turn up. We got absolutely smashed in there for really the first time this year.

    But you can’t excuse selection. We were the youngest team picked this round. Why? We gave the Blues 20+ games on average per game and they played 11 players under 50 games. Why did we play some more mature players to replace two hardened veterans in Suckling and Duryea?

  5. #5
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    The EFFORT of the players was worse.

    Wouldn't have mattered who we picked if the mids - our best players - wont compete.
    I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

    Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out

  6. #6
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wb_age View Post
    I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

    Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out
    He got pushed around but held up today I think he broke even on hitouts and was pretty good around the ground as well.

  7. #7
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    We showed Carlton no respect, from the selection to the siren.

    Two debutants had their moments, but gifted 3 goals from direct turnovers and never looked like providing an effort that could turn the tide. Not a knock on them individually, but we didn't arm ourselves well at all. I think we saw this game a fairly soft entry to AFL footy for them, with others able to carry the burden. Burnt. Badly.

    Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.

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  9. #8
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wb_age View Post
    I don't blame the midfield for a drop in effort, you cant literally rove to the opponents tap at each centre bounce.

    Tim English should not be playing until he has some gains in the weight room, been rag dolled week in week out
    This is just wrong. We won the clearances vs the 'Pies and lost the hitouts by > 40.

    If you have decided to blame the non-selection of Trengove - who has not played a useful game as a ruckman in our colours - then that is just a fantasy. I wish we had another ruck option but we dont. We have got people screaming for Lewis Young as the saviour down back on the game-day thread then bemoaning English getting pushed around...give me a spell.

    Effort is effort. We didn't bring it.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  10. #9
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofScray View Post
    We showed Carlton no respect, from the selection to the siren.

    Two debutants had their moments, but gifted 3 goals from direct turnovers and never looked like providing an effort that could turn the tide. Not a knock on them individually, but we didn't arm ourselves well at all. I think we saw this game a fairly soft entry to AFL footy for them, with others able to carry the burden. Burnt. Badly.

    Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.
    I think you'll find we gifted something like 11 or 12 goals from turnovers.

  11. #10
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofScray View Post
    Completely conceding the ruck and asking so much of English is genuinely bat shit crazy. Far too small in the back half.
    Couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not but I dug it.

    English needs a bigger body to share the load with him. And just let him play a bit of footy.
    "It's over. It's all over."

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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by EasternWest View Post
    Couldn't agree with you more, and I'm not sure if you meant the double entendre or not but I dug it.

    English needs a bigger body to share the load with him. And just let him play a bit of footy.
    Today was one of his better performances in the ruck. He broke even at the hit outs and was decent around the ground too.
    As MJP has pointed out, this falls squarely at the feet of those at the coalface. Bont, Libba, Macrae, Wallis, and the support cast of Gowers, Williams, Smith, Dunkley.

  13. #12
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    Today was one of his better performances in the ruck. He broke even at the hit outs and was decent around the ground too.
    Sure. Doesn't make my point any less valid. If he rucks all year on his own he'll be ruined by the end.

    I've got faith in how good he'll be, but he's still so underweight and needs some protection.
    "It's over. It's all over."

  14. #13
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    I think you'll find we gifted something like 11 or 12 goals from turnovers.
    Haven't checked the stats. I counted 4 direct turnovers, ie we give them the all, that player goals. Comfortably another 5 where goal came within 5 possessions of the turnover.

  15. #14
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    This is just wrong. We won the clearances vs the 'Pies and lost the hitouts by > 40.

    If you have decided to blame the non-selection of Trengove - who has not played a useful game as a ruckman in our colours - then that is just a fantasy. I wish we had another ruck option but we dont. We have got people screaming for Lewis Young as the saviour down back on the game-day thread then bemoaning English getting pushed around...give me a spell.

    Effort is effort. We didn't bring it.
    So we break even in the clearances against the pies, imagine if we had an actual ruckman?

    Rather than break even, likely won the clearances convincingly.

    Also note, Trengrove is not the solution, nor Boyd, nobody on the list that fixes this issue

  16. #15
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    Re: Selection? What a cop out!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wb_age View Post
    So we break even in the clearances against the pies, imagine if we had an actual ruckman?

    Rather than break even, likely won the clearances convincingly.

    Also note, Trengrove is not the solution, nor Boyd, nobody on the list that fixes this issue
    We won the clearances.. It might not look great on the stat sheet, but English is by a long stretch not close to being our main issue right now.
    Let's restrict it to 3 points
    * The inability of our mids to respect and respond to our opposition mids. Likely to lead to hypertension.
    * our insipid conversion...That will induce a stroke.
    * our turnovers..opposition are dining out and scoring at embarrassingly easy levels from our mistakes. You think the metrics on our hit outs looks bad. Check out the scores from our turnovers... It will cause you to have an embolism.

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