Development of Players - Questions

[Bullies]

We continue to play guys who don't deserve a game and don't play guys who do. I might be missing something but I don't see what Gowers brings. Dickson is cooked and was done last year. Hayes is another Honeychurch and a good VFL player but he is not the answer. Would rather see Bailey Dale and Lapinski be given the same long term opportunities in the forward line Gowers and Dickson get.

[boydogs]

With so many full time professional coaches and more resources than ever before... Why?

Coaches looking to make changes to justify their existence. Much like the AFL & rule changes

[Mofra]

The Bont is a star but his career average is hinging on 50/50. I would like to see this more 70/30 because of who he is.

70% goal kicking accuracy puts him among the most accurate goal kickers in the history of AFL football.

[Hotdog60]

70% goal kicking accuracy puts him among the most accurate goal kickers in the history of AFL football.

But he's not a forward and he won't have 10 shots on goal but if he has 5 shots I would hope he would nail 3 of them.

[1eyedog]

What the hell is with Bailey Dale? His earlier form was sensational and I understand he's battled injuries but he's been injury free for a while now and can't recapture the form that saw him an automatic selection over a number of weeks.

[bornadog]

What the hell is with Bailey Dale? His earlier form was sensational and I understand he's battled injuries but he's been injury free for a while now and can't recapture the form that saw him an automatic selection over a number of weeks.

Has only played two games since coming back from injury. Hopefully he gets back to some form.

[Go_Dogs]

Wallis has been the big problem for Dunkley and McLean. Why has Wallis been moved back into the midfield when he was so effective inside F50 both as a goalkicker and a pressure forward? We lack both elements in our F50 now, and Wallis hasn't added much to the midfield mix.

Wallis is one of our best few runners so that's why he gets the minutes.

I'd prefer him forward where he's more effective but if we really need his motor I can see why we are playing him there.

[Mofra]

Wallis is one of our best few runners so that's why he gets the minutes.

I'd prefer him forward where he's more effective but if we really need his motor I can see why we are playing him there.

Modern football is different though - with rotations it's often the leading/high forwards that have the highest no of kms covered in a game. Last year Cordy in his brief foray as a forward covered something like 17kms, mids cover 14-15kms (although arguably at higher intensity).

Regardless of tank Wally last year was a very effective forward or an average mid, Dunkley the opposite. Given his pre-season we're hardly losing the ability to cover ground by putting Dunkley in the middle. If we're desperate for height in the forwardline (Dunks is not much shorter than Chris Grant) we should play a legitimate tall there.

[Mofra]

Wallis is one of our best few runners so that's why he gets the minutes.

I'd prefer him forward where he's more effective but if we really need his motor I can see why we are playing him there.

Modern football is different though - with rotations it's often the leading/high forwards that have the highest no of kms covered in a game. Last year Cordy in his brief foray as a forward covered something like 17kms, mids cover 14-15kms (although arguably at higher intensity).

Regardless of tank Wally last year was a very effective forward or an average mid, Dunkley the opposite. Given his pre-season we're hardly losing the ability to cover ground by putting Dunkley in the middle. If we're desperate for height in the forwardline (Dunks is not much shorter than Chris Grant) we should play a legitimate tall there.

[Go_Dogs]

Modern football is different though - with rotations it's often the leading/high forwards that have the highest no of kms covered in a game. Last year Cordy in his brief foray as a forward covered something like 17kms, mids cover 14-15kms (although arguably at higher intensity).

Regardless of tank Wally last year was a very effective forward or an average mid, Dunkley the opposite. Given his pre-season we're hardly losing the ability to cover ground by putting Dunkley in the middle. If we're desperate for height in the forwardline (Dunks is not much shorter than Chris Grant) we should play a legitimate tall there.

Most weeks it seems to be the mids/running backs who have the highest numbers, although I don't follow it religiously and note Brown led the way in last nights match (probably off the back his defensive efforts being baked). My point was this is why I believe we are playing him there - like you, I'm not sure it's the best role.

Fitness/run is clearly a concern if we are playing midfielders forward in week 5 because they're gassed.

[Rocket Science]

Most weeks it seems to be the mids/running backs who have the highest numbers, although I don't follow it religiously and note Brown led the way in last nights match (probably off the back his defensive efforts being baked). My point was this is why I believe we are playing him there - like you, I'm not sure it's the best role.

Fitness/run is clearly a concern if we are playing midfielders forward in week 5 because they're gassed.

Scuse me I think the coach prefers the term "cooked" thank you.

Chasing tail half the day because you keep turning it over will do that to a team.

[bulldogtragic]

Bump

So add to the list:

Leaves Naughton cold at full forward no matter what
Suckling who was one of our best HBFs last year, is forward, just staring at the ball on the ground for his 30 seconds
Bailey Williams is now a (very, very poor) forward, or was today
Roarke is I'm not sure what role
Hunter takes the centre bounces
McLean is playing VFL because he's not playing a clear role with any clarity
Schache was nearly murdered by Grundy while Trengove stood on Cox. Maybe Trengove ruck, Schache pinch hit on Cox?
Bailey Dale will never be seen again, in any role or position. The same place Webb is.
Dunkley was just saved in the nick of time in playing his best position
Lewis Young, does that ruck, ruck/forward, defender/ruck still play for our VFL side?


I freely admit I don't understand player development. But we have a few success stories in moving players out of successful starts to their career into a new role. But we have a bigger list of players who have gone backwards. I don't get it.

Also, if you select 8-9 half back flankers in the 22, just in math alone, you have to play 2-3 in positions which is not their best spot. Like when we are fit and you select too many mid sized slower midfielders and dump the spares at half forward. I don't imagine that helps too much. Again, never having selected teams I'm no expert.

[Sedat]

Bump

So add to the list:

Leaves Naughton cold at full forward no matter what
Suckling who was one of our best HBFs last year, is forward, just staring at the ball on the ground for his 30 seconds
Bailey Williams is now a (very, very poor) forward, or was today
Roarke is I'm not sure what role
Hunter takes the centre bounces
McLean is playing VFL because he's not playing a clear role with any clarity
Schache was nearly murdered by Grundy while Trengove stood on Cox. Maybe Trengove ruck, Schache pinch hit on Cox?
Bailey Dale will never be seen again, in any role or position. The same place Webb is.
Dunkley was just saved in the nick of time in playing his best position
Lewis Young, does that ruck, ruck/forward, defender/ruck still play for our VFL side?


I freely admit I don't understand player development. But we have a few success stories in moving players out of successful starts to their career into a new role. But we have a bigger list of players who have gone backwards. I don't get it.

Also, if you select 8-9 half back flankers in the 22, just in math alone, you have to play 2-3 in positions which is not their best spot. Like when we are fit and you select too many mid sized slower midfielders and dump the spares at half forward. I don't imagine that helps too much. Again, never having selected teams I'm no expert.

^^^^^^^
Misunderstood genius. Just lacking execution.

[AshMac]

....we have a few success stories in moving players out of successful starts to their career into a new role. But we have a bigger list of players who have gone backwards. I don't get it.

Couldn’t agree with this more. When it works it is a revelation and has spectacular results. Matty boyd to a back flanker role is the perfect example - but when it doesn’t work it is damaging to team performance and player confidence. I’m all for experimenting, give players a chance to succeed elsewhere on the ground - but we need to have a hard line for when it hasn’t worked and either switch that players role or the player themselves.

[dog town]

Bump

So add to the list:

Leaves Naughton cold at full forward no matter what
Suckling who was one of our best HBFs last year, is forward, just staring at the ball on the ground for his 30 seconds
Bailey Williams is now a (very, very poor) forward, or was today
Roarke is I'm not sure what role
Hunter takes the centre bounces
McLean is playing VFL because he's not playing a clear role with any clarity
Schache was nearly murdered by Grundy while Trengove stood on Cox. Maybe Trengove ruck, Schache pinch hit on Cox?
Bailey Dale will never be seen again, in any role or position. The same place Webb is.
Dunkley was just saved in the nick of time in playing his best position
Lewis Young, does that ruck, ruck/forward, defender/ruck still play for our VFL side?


I freely admit I don't understand player development. But we have a few success stories in moving players out of successful starts to their career into a new role. But we have a bigger list of players who have gone backwards. I don't get it.

Also, if you select 8-9 half back flankers in the 22, just in math alone, you have to play 2-3 in positions which is not their best spot. Like when we are fit and you select too many mid sized slower midfielders and dump the spares at half forward. I don't imagine that helps too much. Again, never having selected teams I'm no expert.

While the position you are played can impact your development I see this as minor in terms of actual player development. Most of our development should be coming from the way we review performances with each player and teach them different aspects of the game during the week.

I certainly don't agree with all of our positional moves but you need to view them more broadly IMO. To be honest at times our supporters seem as though they will not be satisfied with any position a player plays in. Most of the positional complaints I read relate to players being played out of position but there is no justification for who moves out of those positions.

Everyone knows that Dunkley and McLean play their best football in the midfield but you can only fit so many players in that rotation. Unless you have coached you don't realise that these are decisions you make on a weekly basis when weighing up where to play people. Take the case of McLean, Bevo is on record as saying we need more leg speed in the forward half. We have a plethora of mids but McLean was probably the most likely to be able to help that scenario. Do you drop Libba, Wallis or McLean or try to make one of them into something you don't already have? It hasn't worked but that's the scenario coaches are often faced with. It is the same with many of the examples often raised.

We have probably got the balance of our list wrong to start with if we want to really pick something out. The Schache situation is interesting, I would actually say that is fantastic coaching by us to be able to get that performance out of him on the weekend. I hear people complain about our team defence starting to decline but in the same breath call for Schache to be played regardless of his performance. This guy was an absolute spectator without the ball for the two weeks before he was dropped. He went down to VFL level and didn't do any better but his performances slowly improved and he was able to show on the weekend that he can do the things we need. As for him rucking unfortunately if we play two tall forwards then one of them has to spend time in the ruck.

FWIW on the weekend just after half time I called for Naughton to go back, Trengove into the ruck and English to be used as the target when required. You could feel the game turning and if we wanted to arrest it that was the best option. Naughton wasn't getting it anyway so we were not losing anything. I dare say Bevo is weighing up the value of persisting with English over getting the win.

The coaches make mistakes and we are making plenty but we are a developing team and have guys that are still learning their positions or are simply not up to it. They are not above criticism I just feel our supporters do it blindly too often without examining the reasons for certain changes. Certainly not singling you out BT just replying as you have taken the time to write about it.