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  1. #1756
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    I feel like we're being fair offering pick 25-29 for Bruce. Low 20s feels generous on our end.
    A genuine KPF who is under contract. I think we'll have to pony up to get him.

    I'd expect a deal to get done quickly as the Saints will use the pick(s) for other deals.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  2. #1757
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    Anyone else not super keen on Elliott?

    Good player but it a small forward that's more of a marking target than a crumber. Kind of the same type as Lloyd and Dale already. I'd rather we put that list spot towards somebody who offers something different to our forwardline.
    He is much, much better than both of them. FA so no draft pick needed.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  3. #1758
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    He is much, much better than both of them. FA so no draft pick needed.
    Yes he is better, but does he make them redundant?

    I think the difference between his output and Lloyd or Dales output is of less consequence to us than the difference between a forward that can offer something we don't have vs our current setup. Getting him because he is a free agent would be like us recruiting an inside mid as a free agent and finding it does very little to improve our team.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

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  5. #1759
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    Yes he is better, but does he make them redundant?

    I think the difference between his output and Lloyd or Dales output is of less consequence to us than the difference between a forward that can offer something we don't have vs our current setup. Getting him because he is a free agent would be like us recruiting an inside mid as a free agent and finding it does very little to improve our team.
    I'd imagine he makes Dickson redundant for a start.

    He plays a bit deeper than Lloyd so has that POD, and Dale needs to show he can stand up at AFL level for longer than 6 weeks every second year for us to really consider him a forward lock.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  7. #1760
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    A genuine KPF who is under contract. I think we'll have to pony up to get him.

    I'd expect a deal to get done quickly as the Saints will use the pick(s) for other deals.
    Just like Hawthorn did for Lake? When you've got a year left on a contract and want to go it's not much better than being out of contract.

  8. #1761
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    GCS getting 1 & 20 looks like stuff around our trading a fair bit.

    One of the options was a pick trade of Pick 12 for Adelaide's Picks 21 & 26.

    Assuming Ellis & Tomlinson compo is end of first round with the GCS picks is now around Pick 13 for Adelaides Pick 25 & 30. Which is less tempting over yesterday's offering when it was 12 for 21 & 26. Both 25 & 30 probably get used on Keath & Bruce with our next moved back from Pick 30 to Pick 34.

    The Keath option direct was Pick 12 for 21 to Adelaide - that's now - Pick 13 for Pick 25 & Keath. Pick 25 on Bruce. Pick 34 our first pick.

    Our picks 41, 46 & 49 (add in Elliott compo, so that's five picks shuffled) - now is - 46, 50 & 54 which because of the lowering in draft points attached might make things more difficult for us, or have to include all three in a draft points based trade with say Freo. It's about 820 points and Freo would want at least that for a 2020 2nd rounder.

    Teams pushed back like Melbourne, Saints & North have a fair bigger hurt factor being pushed back in both rounds. But this is our clubs contribution to GCS being turned into a viable club.
    Ret.

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  10. #1762
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    I'd imagine he makes Dickson redundant for a start.

    He plays a bit deeper than Lloyd so has that POD, and Dale needs to show he can stand up at AFL level for longer than 6 weeks every second year for us to really consider him a forward lock.
    Looking at Elliot's stats he generally averages around 30 odd goals per season. I think with Dale emerging, he is not the type we need, but would be a good Dickson replacement.
    Last edited by bornadog; 30-09-2019 at 03:58 PM.
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  11. #1763
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Are we pushing hard to see if we can land Sam Gray?
    Start each day with a task completed. Find someone to help you through life. Respect everyone.
    Know that life is not fair and that you will fail often. But if take you take some risks, step up when the times are toughest, face down the bullies, lift up the downtrodden and never, ever give up if you do these things, then the next generation and the generations that follow will live in a world far better than the one we have today.
    And what started here will indeed have changed the world for the better.

  12. #1764
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Just like Hawthorn did for Lake? When you've got a year left on a contract and want to go it's not much better than being out of contract.
    Lake was an injury prone KPD when we traded him who was going to walk 12 months later anyway.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  13. #1765
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    GCS getting 1 & 20 looks like stuff around our trading a fair bit.

    One of the options was a pick trade of Pick 12 for Adelaide's Picks 21 & 26.

    Assuming Ellis & Tomlinson compo is end of first round with the GCS picks is now around Pick 13 for Adelaides Pick 25 & 30. Which is less tempting over yesterday's offering when it was 12 for 21 & 26. Both 25 & 30 probably get used on Keath & Bruce with our next moved back from Pick 30 to Pick 34.

    The Keath option direct was Pick 12 for 21 to Adelaide - that's now - Pick 13 for Pick 25 & Keath. Pick 25 on Bruce. Pick 34 our first pick.

    Our picks 41, 46 & 49 (add in Elliott compo, so that's five picks shuffled) - now is - 46, 50 & 54 which because of the lowering in draft points attached might make things more difficult for us, or have to include all three in a draft points based trade with say Freo. It's about 820 points and Freo would want at least that for a 2020 2nd rounder.

    Teams pushed back like Melbourne, Saints & North have a fair bigger hurt factor being pushed back in both rounds. But this is our clubs contribution to GCS being turned into a viable club.
    I think it means pick 13 becomes more valuable now.
    Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.

  14. #1766
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Looking at Elliot's stats he generally averages around 30 odd goals per season. I think with Dale emerging, he is not the type we need, but would be a good Diockson replacement.
    Dale is more likely to drift back to old habits than continue his last five games of home and away form.
    They come after one,
    They come after all,
    They can't handle all,
    Lets go....

    Bob Murphy

  15. #1767
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    Dale is more likely to drift back to old habits than continue his last five games of home and away form.
    There is a big chance that could happen but he has shown what he is capable of and now must shown that standard
    Start each day with a task completed. Find someone to help you through life. Respect everyone.
    Know that life is not fair and that you will fail often. But if take you take some risks, step up when the times are toughest, face down the bullies, lift up the downtrodden and never, ever give up if you do these things, then the next generation and the generations that follow will live in a world far better than the one we have today.
    And what started here will indeed have changed the world for the better.

  16. #1768
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    Lake was an injury prone KPD when we traded him who was going to walk 12 months later anyway.
    Lake played 20 games the year he was traded, 5 the year before, full seasons the years prior. Bruce played 22 this year and 5 last year. Very similar history there. Bruce can also walk in a years time and the Saints seem happy enough for him to go so they can invest other assets elsewhere.

    I think the scenarios are remarkably compatible and Lake was probably a better player than Bruce if we're being honest. Lake was valued at pick 32 in the points calculator. Crameri was traded for pick 27 (IIRC). I feel like that's the range that's fair. 25 or lower is us being overly generous.

    One factor though is Lake was a bit older. 29 or 30 maybe? So that certainly reduces the value for sure.

  17. #1769
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    GCS getting 1 & 20 looks like stuff around our trading a fair bit.

    One of the options was a pick trade of Pick 12 for Adelaide's Picks 21 & 26.

    Assuming Ellis & Tomlinson compo is end of first round with the GCS picks is now around Pick 13 for Adelaides Pick 25 & 30. Which is less tempting over yesterday's offering when it was 12 for 21 & 26. Both 25 & 30 probably get used on Keath & Bruce with our next moved back from Pick 30 to Pick 34.

    The Keath option direct was Pick 12 for 21 to Adelaide - that's now - Pick 13 for Pick 25 & Keath. Pick 25 on Bruce. Pick 34 our first pick.

    Our picks 41, 46 & 49 (add in Elliott compo, so that's five picks shuffled) - now is - 46, 50 & 54 which because of the lowering in draft points attached might make things more difficult for us, or have to include all three in a draft points based trade with say Freo. It's about 820 points and Freo would want at least that for a 2020 2nd rounder.

    Teams pushed back like Melbourne, Saints & North have a fair bigger hurt factor being pushed back in both rounds. But this is our clubs contribution to GCS being turned into a viable club.
    This is what annoys me about the gifting of priority picks, it stuffs everything up for everyone else.

  18. #1770
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    Re: Proactive Poaching

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Lake played 20 games the year he was traded, 5 the year before, full seasons the years prior. Bruce played 22 this year and 5 last year. Very similar history there. Bruce can also walk in a years time and the Saints seem happy enough for him to go so they can invest other assets elsewhere.

    I think the scenarios are remarkably compatible and Lake was probably a better player than Bruce if we're being honest. Lake was valued at pick 32 in the points calculator. Crameri was traded for pick 27 (IIRC). I feel like that's the range that's fair. 25 or lower is us being overly generous.

    One factor though is Lake was a bit older. 29 or 30 maybe? So that certainly reduces the value for sure.
    The age is only 1 or 2 years different. I feel KPFs tend to go for a bit more, and Bruce is desperately wanting out it seems mor a case of our offer being an increase on his current contract.

    Having said that, I'd be surprised if this on drags on as the Saints have a lot to get done this year.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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