The Three Top KPPs In Three Drafts - All Bulldogs

[bornadog]

Obviously hope I am wrong. But if Im honest ive moved on from Boyd and was never sold on Josh.

Rather look at the positives. Naughton and English are rippers. Both are way more aggressive than Josh or Tom. Both can mark and seem resilient.

Two of the best young talls I have seen for a long time. Hopefully they go on with it.

[kruder]

Because they didn't cost anything. All late picks are unknowns and at least Duryea, a premiership player can add some experience.

They are so vanilla we already have all their attributes covered just does not make sense. We lack speed/natural forward ability surely you would have a crack at players with at least one of those attributes.

[jeemak]

They are so vanilla we already have all their attributes covered just does not make sense. We lack speed/natural forward ability surely you would have a crack at players with at least one of those attributes.

We certainly didn't have Duryea's attributes covered, although I was originally skeptical on him when he started with us and I'd like to see what can do forward of the ball should he come back into the side and a spot is vacated by one of Dickson or Gowers. I mean, if being able to safely use the football by foot and kick a long goal from time to time is vanilla, then I'm done with strawberry and chocolate. They are the attributes we desperately need right now.

I'm still dumbfounded by the selection of Hayes, he is a bit light on for anything that stands out in the AFL (though his first career goal was a bloody ripper) and doesn't seem to have the physique to compete against athletic types playing in his position. Not sure about Porter, from reports it's looking like he's going to struggle to maintain a spot on the list as it is.

Whilst I know you didn't mention him, I've been really happy with Sam Lloyd. He plays a really tough role for us and has continued to go at 1.5 goals a game, which is all you can ask of him. He could possibly get involved in scoring chains more and tackle more, but a bit like Crozier last year I'm hopeful he'll continue to find his feet at a new club and have greater impact as the year progresses.

[hujsh]

Brown averaged 4.5 marks a game in his first yr aged 20. Pretty sure Boyd is older and has never hit 3.5 marks a game in a season. Last yr he marked the ball less than half as much as Brown did when he was 20. Same story for Jenkins - 4.5 marks a game in his first yr at around 22 - younger than Boyd was last yr and again doubling Boyds marks per game at the same age.

Liam Jones was just unfit and ran under the ball. Unlike Schache he never shirked body contact and always crashed packs.

No points (let alone bonus points) for you.

Boyd will never be a good let alone a great KPF but could possibly ruck if he gets fit - but will only ever be a bit player at our club as he is already well behind English and the gap will only widen.

Schache will only ever tease with oçcasional decent games but doesnt have the aggression or hunger and IMO will amount to even less than Boyd.

That's a completely arbitrary way to judge a player. So if he averaged an extra mark a game in 2016 getting a cheap kick in defense there'd be hope for him but since he didn't he's stuffed.

As for the question Hipwood is still averaging 3.5 for his career and he's 4 years in. Not dissimilar to one T.Boyd before he was moved to being a number one ruckman in 2017.

[LostDoggy]

That's a completely arbitrary way to judge a player. So if he averaged an extra mark a game in 2016 getting a cheap kick in defense there'd be hope for him but since he didn't he's stuffed.

As for the question Hipwood is still averaging 3.5 for his career and he's 4 years in. Not dissimilar to one T.Boyd before he was moved to being a number one ruckman in 2017.

No I only use marking as a key criterion to judge a 200cm player whose primary role is deep fwd. Some folk are happy with an aerial contest and bugger all marks and goals from a 200cm primary deep fwd. I'm not one of them. If you are big and slow and offer stuff all with ground ball or defensively, you simply have to mark it more than the two times a game Boyd has since the GF.

And on Hipwood, he averaged 3 marks a game in his first two years. Now averaging over 4 marks a game. And in his third yr (last year) he pretty much doubled Boyds marks per game last yr (Boyds fifth yr).

And as English has shown it should be easy enough to get four plus marks per game in the ruck. Last yr in English's second yr, he too comfortably doubled Boyd's marks per game. Both playing ruck for the same team, both with injuries.

Sorry Boyd just doesn't mark it enough to be a successful deep fwd IMO.

As I said, hope Im wrong but we are six yrs in and Boyds marking average year on year has declined while his injuries have piled up. IMO.

[Bullies]

All three are great to have on the list, but you can't play players out of form.

Form doesn't seem to be an issue with them playing Gowers each week. I would rather Schache be given the same opportunities. Boy can play and the penny will drop once he gets a bit of confidence.

[Mofra]

No I only use marking as a key criterion to judge a 200cm player whose primary role is deep fwd. Some folk are happy with an aerial contest and bugger all marks and goals from a 200cm primary deep fwd. I'm not one of them.

When has Boyd ever played as a deep forward for the majority of a game?
He's been a ruck/forward for almost his entire career with us.

FWIW Nicnat averages 1.9 marks per game.

I'm not sure Boyd ever gets close to the player we want him to be but stats never tell the full story.

[Mofra]

Form doesn't seem to be an issue with them playing Gowers each week. I would rather Schache be given the same opportunities. Boy can play and the penny will drop once he gets a bit of confidence.

Schache was terrible in the VFL. We are toast if we reward piss poor efforts like that with promotion.

[hujsh]

No I only use marking as a key criterion to judge a 200cm player whose primary role is deep fwd. Some folk are happy with an aerial contest and bugger all marks and goals from a 200cm primary deep fwd. I'm not one of them. If you are big and slow and offer stuff all with ground ball or defensively, you simply have to mark it more than the two times a game Boyd has since the GF.

And on Hipwood, he averaged 3 marks a game in his first two years. Now averaging over 4 marks a game. And in his third yr (last year) he pretty much doubled Boyds marks per game last yr (Boyds fifth yr).

And as English has shown it should be easy enough to get four plus marks per game in the ruck. Last yr in English's second yr, he too comfortably doubled Boyd's marks per game. Both playing ruck for the same team, both with injuries.

Sorry Boyd just doesn't mark it enough to be a successful deep fwd IMO.

As I said, hope Im wrong but we are six yrs in and Boyds marking average year on year has declined while his injuries have piled up. IMO.

His marks per game went down as he played more minutes in the ruck. That’s why I say this is an arbitrary judgement.

[Bulldog4life]

They are so vanilla we already have all their attributes covered just does not make sense. We lack speed/natural forward ability surely you would have a crack at players with at least one of those attributes.

We did have a crack at a speedster in Impey but missed out.

[bornadog]

We did have a crack at a speedster in Impey but missed out.

I reckon he would have been good for us.

[LostDoggy]

His marks per game went down as he played more minutes in the ruck. That’s why I say this is an arbitrary judgement.

Marking is marking. If Boyd could mark the ball he would. As I said, English played the same role in the same team almost at the same time in only his second yr and doubled Boyds marks per game last year. And English is no Naughton aerially.

And its not just stats, anyone watching Boyd closely could not help but notice how easily he is bumped out of marking contests, how he regularly drops marks on the lead and how he flat hands the ball rather than using a soft 'W'. last yr he even started going for marks one handed. 2.2 marks a game last yr is just the natural byproduct.

No doubt we shall see him deep fwd at some point as he wont be playing predominant ruck while English plays IMO.

I wish him well but see no reason to believe he suddenly ups his marking and becomes any more than a bit part 'structural' player who provides an aerial contest fwd and a ruck chop out for English.

[hujsh]

Marking is marking. If Boyd could mark the ball he would. As I said, English played the same role in the same team almost at the same time in only his second yr and doubled Boyds marks per game last year. And English is no Naughton aerially.

And its not just stats, anyone watching Boyd closely could not help but notice how easily he is bumped out of marking contests, how he regularly drops marks on the lead and how he flat hands the ball rather than using a soft 'W'. last yr he even started going for marks one handed. 2.2 marks a game last yr is just the natural byproduct.

No doubt we shall see him deep fwd at some point as he wont be playing predominant ruck while English plays IMO.

I wish him well but see no reason to believe he suddenly ups his marking and becomes any more than a bit part 'structural' player who provides an aerial contest fwd and a ruck chop out for English.

The second paragraph is all you need and better illustrates your point. Marks per game is not a useful stat without further context. It’s a pretty useless stat normally. I’d like to give Boyd a go as a forward where we let him get form in the VFL then give him time in the seniors to prove himself. I don’t care to make a judgement before then personally. Will Boyd ever get this chance though? Maybe not. Maybe not under this coaching group.

[lemmon]

I think Schache is a centre half back that hasn't been told it yet.

A lot of the criticisms of Josh are the same that were made of Darcy Moore and before him Lachy Henderson - not aggressive enough, doesn't crash packs, doesn't stay involved in the play etc etc.

What he does have is a beautiful field kick, he's a good athlete and moves well laterally for a man of his size, has enough bulk to play key defence, he has good hands and I think is underrated below his knees.

A lot of ingredients there to make a pretty good tall defender.

Naughton's marking is generational - to me he sits at centre half forward for the next 12 years and watches Nick Riewoldt tapes before bed. Boyd plays forward and second ruck to give him some support and stop him being double teamed as much.

Leaves a spot in the backline for Josh.

[Mofra]

The second paragraph is all you need and better illustrates your point. Marks per game is not a useful stat without further context. It’s a pretty useless stat normally. I’d like to give Boyd a go as a forward where we let him get form in the VFL then give him time in the seniors to prove himself. I don’t care to make a judgement before then personally. Will Boyd ever get this chance though? Maybe not. Maybe not under this coaching group.

I hardly saw him forward in the VFL, spent more time in the ruck.
The club clearly see him as a ruck and I suspect the fact he can't mark a leading ball (can mark a high ball) has a bit to do with it.