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  1. #211
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
    I see your point about game plans. But are the positions in two different sides THAT different?
    It's not just the position, it's the role they play and the different teams structure/defensive plan/preferred ball movement methods and what how the actual game plays out between the two team. All sorts of factors make the comparison moot.

    We have all of JJ, Caleb, Crozier and Suckling as defenders who I'd rather have the ball in the hands of before Cordy anyway. If anyone is going to be instructed to play extra defensive he'd be right up at the top of my list with the likes of Morris.

    In fact Morris is a great comparison. Has anyone every looked at Morris's stats after a game and said 'geez we're not getting much run from him he's down on output'? No. Because we all know what Morris does best and what he's in the team to do.

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  3. #212
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    It's not just the position, it's the role they play and the different teams structure/defensive plan/preferred ball movement methods and what how the actual game plays out between the two team. All sorts of factors make the comparison moot.

    We have all of JJ, Caleb, Crozier and Suckling as defenders who I'd rather have the ball in the hands of before Cordy anyway. If anyone is going to be instructed to play extra defensive he'd be right up at the top of my list with the likes of Morris.

    In fact Morris is a great comparison. Has anyone every looked at Morris's stats after a game and said 'geez we're not getting much run from him he's down on output'? No. Because we all know what Morris does best and what he's in the team to do.
    I love Cords as a player but get very nervous when he kicks on his left.

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  5. #213
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    It's not just the position, it's the role they play and the different teams structure/defensive plan/preferred ball movement methods and what how the actual game plays out between the two team. All sorts of factors make the comparison moot.

    We have all of JJ, Caleb, Crozier and Suckling as defenders who I'd rather have the ball in the hands of before Cordy anyway. If anyone is going to be instructed to play extra defensive he'd be right up at the top of my list with the likes of Morris.

    In fact Morris is a great comparison. Has anyone every looked at Morris's stats after a game and said 'geez we're not getting much run from him he's down on output'? No. Because we all know what Morris does best and what he's in the team to do.
    It's funny when we discuss Morris in the context of 'flexibility', the new mantra. He plays one role and does it very well.
    If Cordy can match Morris in that stopper role, we would be fortunate. I would hope Cordy could run a little faster than Dale and give us some better spread however.
    "We've got to be good in the phone box, and good in the tardis" - Pearls of wisdom from Luke Beveridge.

  6. #214
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    By hujsh

    It's not just the position, it's the role they play and the different teams structure/defensive plan/preferred ball movement methods and what how the actual game plays out .....

    We know how the game plays out......We lose.

    it is what we have done better than most teams since the middle of 2017.

    Now we are not winning against bottom teams...a new low for long suffering supporters.

    That is why players have to change. And in Cordyís case it has to be more and better ball use.


  7. #215
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    [COLOR=#333333]

    Now we are not winning against bottom teams...a new low for long suffering supporters.
    Ummmm.

    We aren’t long suffering. A couple of seasons with unfulfilled expectations is not long suffering. Only 3x teams have won premierships in the past 3 years - West Coast, Richmond and US.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  9. #216
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Ummmm.

    We arenít long suffering. A couple of seasons with unfulfilled expectations is not long suffering. Only 3x teams have won premierships in the past 3 years - West Coast, Richmond and US.
    unlike the other teams that have been winning premierships since 2000 our stay at the top was short lived. Could not make the finals the following year and were even worse the next two (three).

  10. #217
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    By hujsh

    It's not just the position, it's the role they play and the different teams structure/defensive plan/preferred ball movement methods and what how the actual game plays out .....

    We know how the game plays out......We lose.

    it is what we have done better than most teams since the middle of 2017.

    Now we are not winning against bottom teams...a new low for long suffering supporters.

    That is why players have to change. And in Cordy’s case it has to be more and better ball use.

    I'm speaking about how the game flows, how the various plans interact with eachother, what one team does to counter the other's attacking movement etc. Don't just pull pull this 'we always lose' crap because you don't want to engage with the fact there's too many variables for you to compare Cordy against one team with another tall defender against the same team and demonstrate anything of real value.

    I get you like stats but they don't tell the whole story. If you think the problem (or one of them to be fair to you) facing this team is that Zaine Cordy doesn't get enough of the ball then you're free to believe it but you'll be in the minority.

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  12. #218
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    unlike the other teams that have been winning premierships since 2000 our stay at the top was short lived. Could not make the finals the following year and were even worse the next two (three).
    Yeah - but we also played in prelims in 08/09/10...it hasn't exactly been a barren 20 years...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  13. #219
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Yeah - but we also played in prelims in 08/09/10...it hasn't exactly been a barren 20 years...
    Also finals in 2000, 2006, 2015
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  14. #220
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    I'm speaking about how the game flows, how the various plans interact with eachother, what one team does to counter the other's attacking movement etc. Don't just pull pull this 'we always lose' crap because you don't want to engage with the fact there's too many variables for you to compare Cordy against one team with another tall defender against the same team and demonstrate anything of real value.

    I get you like stats but they don't tell the whole story. If you think the problem (or one of them to be fair to you) facing this team is that Zaine Cordy doesn't get enough of the ball then you're free to believe it but you'll be in the minority.
    I said we lose more than most and that is a fact that canít be argued against on the basis of the last 40 games. The task is to change that.

    Cordy is not a tall defender. And he doesnít have the body strength like Morris, so he often gets beaten (1 on 1) by big forwards. Morris has been beaten too at times, no disgrace in that.

    I am sure that Cordy is being played in the wrong positions (others too). Look at the Carlton game, very few people were surprised by that disaster . His opponent (an emergency I think) had 20 possessions, 11 marks and 4 goals. Cordy had about 6 possessions.

    Cordy is built like Ryan Hargraves and the team would be better served if he played that style of game. Taking the ball instead of punching it away. Positive instead of negative. 100 %ers instead of 1 %ers.

  15. #221
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Yeah - but we also played in prelims in 08/09/10...it hasn't exactly been a barren 20 years...
    True, these were very good years. Looked like we meant business all season and top 4 finish.

    Can I have some more please.

  16. #222
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    True, these were very good years. Looked like we meant business all season and top 4 finish.

    Can I have some more please.
    For me too please.
    WOOF NUMBER 6

  17. #223
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    True, these were very good years. Looked like we meant business all season and top 4 finish.

    Can I have some more please.
    Not sure there is a switch that can be flicked... if there was, it might be worn out.

  18. #224
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    We badly lack key position players. Naughton will be a genuine key player but still lacks experience. At this stage of development he would be better suited as a defender. Cordy given his size is more a third defender. Schache has the potential of being a key forward but suffers from our poor delivery into attack. English lacks experience against the likes of Grundy and as we saw against North, Goldstein. We recruited Trengrove from PA as a key defender but for the most part has been needed in the ruck to support English.
    Without a genuine spine, we can expect to struggle

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  20. #225
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    Re: WB Game Day v North Melbourne R10 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggety Back Pocket View Post
    We badly lack key position players. Naughton will be a genuine key player but still lacks experience. At this stage of development he would be better suited as a defender. Cordy given his size is more a third defender. Schache has the potential of being a key forward but suffers from our poor delivery into attack. English lacks experience against the likes of Grundy and as we saw against North, Goldstein. We recruited Trengrove from PA as a key defender but for the most part has been needed in the ruck to support English.
    Without a genuine spine, we can expect to struggle
    Other than Trengove, our KPP are young Naughton 19 years old, Schache 21, English 21 and add on Lew Young 20 years old and Gardner 21. Even Cordy is only 22.
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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