WB Game Day V West Coast R11 2019

[Sedat]

Re: English ... the kid doesn't deserve nearly as much heat as the coaches who decided a junior midfielder who experienced a growth spurt should be our #1 ruck option with all of ten games under his belt.

It actually does English a disservice to be repeatedly smashed by his opposing ruckman spending massive minutes as #1 ruck. And it is the cowards response by our coaching staff to say he is "learning every game and will be better for the experience"

[bornadog]

My argument is that we should have the players to back up a couple of injuries and poor form but the development of the playing list is the issue where we are lagging well behind

or the players we thought were good are not.

I have serious doubts about Webb, Dale, Hayes, Gowers, Mclean, Cordy's current role, Wood's role, Trengove's role, Roberts is not good enough to come back in. We have a bunch of talls that are all young, yes young because taller players take longer to mature. We also have 6 players that haven't had a game yet.

I think we are still in development mode, and it will take some time to get up there again.

[GVGjr]

I hate to start by making excuses but he's just a kid. Are we are expecting too much of him in his early 20s to be dominating or even breaking even with experienced AFL ruckmen? Give him the benefits of a couple of more preseasons and I think he will be one of the best players in the comp.

He needs support and unfortunately we aren't flush with options because we are determined to manufacture short term support for the ruck position than having someone who can provide a genuine chop out

[GVGjr]

or the players we thought were good are not.

So we are cutting into the playing list deeply enough? You've generally argued against that. I'd also question the player development

The list was good enough to win the flag but has performed since. There is something in that if you choose to look at it

[bornadog]

It actually does English a disservice to be repeatedly smashed by his opposing ruckman spending massive minutes as #1 ruck. And it is the cowards response by our coaching staff to say he is "learning every game and will be better for the experience"

All well and good, but what is the solution right now?

[Twodogs]

He needs support and unfortunately we aren't flush with options because we are determined to manufacture short term support for the ruck position than having someone who can provide a genuine chop out

Yep, agree strongly. We cant continue to just go through the rounds of the kitchen with ruckmen the coach wont play or ruckmen that aren't up to the job or ruckmen who are too young to influence the game after quarter time. Here's an idea, let's find out WTF Bevo wants from a ruckman and then try and recruit one. I'd like to think that we have tried that but with some of the other things that are going on onfield and around the club I have to ask if we have actually done that.

What I do know is that what we are doing is not a long term solution.

[jeemak]

Two really disappointing halves for two different reasons.

Our execution forward in the first half was completely disgusting and all involved should feel completely ashamed of themselves. It simply isn't good enough to continually waste opportunities and we need to identify which of our players waste opportunities, and cannot contribute in other areas, and move them on if they can't improve quickly.

The second half was a completely arrogant and poorly lead effort from our players between the arcs, starting in the midfield. I have a complete lack of faith for the likes of Bontempelli, Macrae, Hunter and Liberatore to lead the way and show some on-ground ability to stem the tide when it turns. Sure they can each do a bit for their own individual performances, but it is becoming really evident that they are not team focused or have the ability to work together to make the team work harder in their area when the chips are down. Until we fix our structural deficiencies we will need to rely on a team effort to remain in games and it starts with these guys and they are lacking.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We conceded 21 goals from only 52 inside 50s!

We had 20 more touches. Nearly broke even on clearances. Turnovers almost identical too.

Is it endeavour? Skill level? Or a bad game plan?

We are talking about playing against a potential Premiership team playing against a bottom 4 team in the WB. They have a powerful goal to goal line and superior mid field that uses the ball far better. Darling and Kennedy are clearly better key forwards as is McGovern and Schofield down back. The superior skill of Gaff Shuey and Yeo in the mid field ensured a comfortable win. Our defence and attack simply isn’t good enough. The opposition has averaged 20 goals against us in the past three games. Our attack ranks 18th in the competition. At the end of the day we simply do not have the talent.

[bornadog]

So we are cutting into the playing list deeply enough? You've generally argued against that. I'd also question the player development

The list was good enough to win the flag but has performed since. There is something in that if you choose to look at it

We have been cutting on average about 10 players per year, how much can one cut?

How many players left from the premiership list?

[Twodogs]

Two really disappointing halves for two different reasons.

Our execution forward in the first half was completely disgusting and all involved should feel completely ashamed of themselves. It simply isn't good enough to continually waste opportunities and we need to identify which of our players waste opportunities, and cannot contribute in other areas, and move them on if they can't improve quickly.

The second half was a completely arrogant and poorly lead effort from our players between the arcs, starting in the midfield. I have a complete lack of faith for the likes of Bontempelli, Macrae, Hunter and Liberatore to lead the way and show some on-ground ability to stem the tide when it turns. Sure they can each do a bit for their own individual performances, but it is becoming really evident that they are not team focused or have the ability to work together to make the team work harder in their area when the chips are down. Until we fix our structural deficiencies we will need to rely on a team effort to remain in games and it starts with these guys and they are lacking.

We need a Michael Voss type onfield. Someone who can focus certain players attention to the job at hand. The problem is that they don't come along very often unfortunately. Even a Scott twin (or two) would be handy. The legend goes that if a player at Brisbane didn't go hard enough at a loose ball during a match then that player got to spend 15 minutes locked in a car with the Scott twins after the next training session while they explained what was expected.

[GVGjr]

We have been cutting on average about 10 players per year, how much can one cut?

How many players left from the premiership list?

By saying the list isn't good enough haven't you answered your own question?

Player development is a far better focus than using injuries and inexperience as the primary excuses

[merantau]

We promised a lot in the first half but turned it in in the second - badly. Our skill level, even in the first half, was poor. Really poor handling, and errant hand and foot passes often meant the receiver kicked under pressure. The second half was truly ordinary. You would like to think the team would come out FIRING but instead we conceded two quick goals to be four goals down. Five minutes later it was game over and season over I'm afraid.
We have too many passengers, too many players down on form and not enough quality waiting in the wings. I am afraid that spells TROUBLE.
I hope I'm wrong but I can't see us winning any more than another 4 games this year.
Dale, Lipinski, Gowers, Young and Williams will struggle to become established players. Of those who played in 2016 Wood, McLean, JJ Roberts and Dickson have dropped away. Of those who have come in Lloyd has been serviceable
The shining lights are Smith and Naughton and English who will be a very good player. He still has a lot a learn and needs to be stronger. I was hopeful that Lewis Young will establish himself and I have not given up on him.
Of those in the VFL Sachce needs to be given a decent run at it and so does Lin Jong who at times has shown a bit and he does go at the ball 100% . I feel very frustrated with the way we have played these last two and a half years. We have regressed badly. Our best is good enough but we can rarely sustain it and we are terribly easy to score against

[Sedat]

All well and good, but what is the solution right now?

Trengove should be our #1 ruckman for 60-80% game time - he is ultra competitive in the mould of Ben Hudson. English should play forward as a dangerous key target to assist Naughton, and then go in fresh for 5-8 minutes a qtr into the ruck.

He is simply costing the team far too much playing predominantly ruck and getting absolutely hammened at atoppages.

[merantau]

Another shining light that I failed yo mention is Josh Dunckley. He is having a very good year.

[DOG GOD]

Trengove should be our #1 ruckman for 60-80% game time - he is ultra competitive in the mould of Ben Hudson. English should play forward as a dangerous key target to assist Naughton, and then go in fresh for 5-8 minutes a qtr into the ruck.

He is simply costing the team far too much playing predominantly ruck and getting absolutely hammened at atoppages.

Totally agree Sedat. English looks best when he’s linking up. His skill level is very good for his height. He’s proved he can play fwd. we need a guy who can out body opposing ruckman, and Trengove certainly uses his body.

I’ve wanted English to be our #1, but the more I see him, the less I see him as that player. We screwed Tom Boyd. Let’s not do the same with English.