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  1. #31
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    It's not a coaching issue, it is a lack of the right players in the right areas. We have the worse defence in the AFL. We don't have intercepting tall players like West Coast do? Where is our McGovern, where is our tight nit backline group. I am beginning to think that guys like Cordy, Trengove, Wood, Williams and even Caleb shouldn't be in the backline.

    Caleb gets alot of the ball, but does he instigate attacking footy? Is he a good defender one on one? Cordy is not strong enough or tall enough to play on any decent size forwards, Trengove is shoved around to fill holes. Then we have players that are not ready, like Young.

    Our mids get alot of the ball, but are they damaging enough? There are holes all over the ground, and all Bevo and his assistants can do is plug holes and move them around.

    We need to get more experience into some of these young players and hope they will be better in the next few years.
    You honestly think our back 6 is responsible for all defending? Do you think any of our midfield group showed the required effort to assist the back 6 in preventing clean and easy opposition F50 ball when we didn't have it?
    "You've got no fear of The Underdog, that's why you will not survive"
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  2. #32
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    We have 5,000,000 HBFs. You sighted Daniel & Williams to move from the HBF. We have them covered. He plays Gowers in the middle. Gardner over Schache. Libba & Macrae and others in the forwardline. But it always seems to be the players fault, never Bevo's. Bevo, the guy who trains them, prepares them, selects their roles, selects them in the team, and moves them on match day etc.
    Hang on, only a couple of weeks ago, Schache turned out a performance that was softer than tissue paper. And yet he should be in our side right now. I think Bevo is well and truly in the right to present Schache with a clear checklist of what he needs to demonstrate at Footscray before he gets back.
    Gardner is clearly a work in progress, but he showed more willingness at his size at the contest, in one game, than Schache has shown in his whole career.
    Right now Scache is the Alastair Ford of this generation... low energy.

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  4. #33
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    I don't think Bevo is the problem.
    I do think our lack of change throughout our whole coaching group IS part of the problem.
    I would be disappointed if Bevo were to either be turfed or if he got sick of it and put his hat in the ring for say a North, Carlton or maybe Saints job.
    I'm recalling Leigh Matthews getting the sack at Collingwood...after being made the fall guy for their failure 5 years after their premiership.
    How'd that work out?
    I agree, I don't think Bevo is the problem but he is part of the problem
    Sacking him is not an option in my opinion. Lets get him some support and modify his focus
    Tough times don't last, tough people do
    "He'll accumulate and be involved, but we're looking a qualitative sheen on his game that we need, and it is part of our scope to score"

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  6. #34
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    You honestly think our back 6 is responsible for all defending? Do you think any of our midfield group showed the required effort to.assizt the defenders in preventing clean and easy opposition F50 ball when we didn't have it?
    Yep. Defence is either we have the ball or we are trying to get our hands on the bloody thing and get it back. It's pretty straight forward and doesn't take a lot of thought.


    In 2016 when we were playing our best footy we were slapping the ball out of opposition players' hands right from the get-go. We never let them settle and always had them thinking "where the hell are they?"
    WOOF NUMBER 6

  7. #35
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    Hang on, only a couple of weeks ago, Schache turned out a performance that was softer than tissue paper. And yet he should be in our side right now. I think Bevo is well and truly in the right to present Schache with a clear checklist of what he needs to demonstrate at Footscray before he gets back.
    Gardner is clearly a work in progress, but he showed more willingness at his size at the contest, in one game, than Schache has shown in his whole career.
    Right now Scache is the Alastair Ford of this generation... low energy.
    I hope he makes me eat my words, but Gardner looks like a poor mans Tom Campbell. But one who can't ruck. The physique, the mannerisms all remind me of Soup. But even now Soup seems a safer bet to make it.

    Schache gets no grace at the selection table, while others get a huge amount. Everyone has favourites and Bevo is no different.
    I drank the slab that Bon Scott drunk
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  8. #36
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    Yep. Defence is either we have the ball or we are trying to get our hands on the bloody thing and get it back. It's pretty straight forward and doesn't take a lot of thought.


    In 2016 when we were playing our best footy we were slapping the ball out of opposition players' hands right from the get-go. We never let them settle and always had them thinking "where the hell are they?"
    The mentality of 'Wall of Biggs' in 2016.

    Now it's the 'indifferent uninterested wet blanket of please don't score'.
    I drank the slab that Bon Scott drunk
    I injected some of Hendrixs junk
    I booked a seat on Lynyrd Skynyrds plane
    Mama Cass's sandwich? Ate the same

  9. #37
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    It's not a coaching issue, it is a lack of the right players in the right areas. We have the worse defence in the AFL. We don't have intercepting tall players like West Coast do? Where is our McGovern, where is our tight nit backline group. I am beginning to think that guys like Cordy, Trengove, Wood, Williams and even Caleb shouldn't be in the backline.

    Caleb gets alot of the ball, but does he instigate attacking footy? Is he a good defender one on one? Cordy is not strong enough or tall enough to play on any decent size forwards, Trengove is shoved around to fill holes. Then we have players that are not ready, like Young.

    Our mids get alot of the ball, but are they damaging enough? There are holes all over the ground, and all Bevo and his assistants can do is plug holes and move them around.

    We need to get more experience into some of these young players and hope they will be better in the next few years.
    You realise why McGovern is so good is largely due to the players in front of him and the structures and tactics the coaching team employ to ensure opposition sides kick to him, right?

    Defence starts deep in the forward half and at the stoppage coal face, and the further our opposition moves it away from our goal when they get it the easier it seems for them because the process started with such small amounts of pressure. By the time it gets to our back six or the last line, whoever is there barely stands a chance to influence things positively, and when up against very good to elite forwards they're going to be exposed.

    Now I'm not saying our first choice defencive talls in Trengove and Cordy are who we want or need holding up our last line, but what I am saying it largely wouldn't matter who you had down there at the moment because they'd already be cooked before the ball got within 50m of them.

    I guess the question comes down to whether our forward half defence through to midfield defence is personnel related or a mental deficiency we have within the players who play in those areas. I think it's the latter coupled with coaching, and I think the coaching can have a really big impact on that if changed.

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  11. #38
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    Yep. Defence is either we have the ball or we are trying to get our hands on the bloody thing and get it back. It's pretty straight forward and doesn't take a lot of thought.
    The likes of Gaff, Cripps, Yeo, etc.. shamed our mids with their two-way gut running in the 2nd half tonight. That 2nd half display from our mids was not even close to the required standard in defensive support.

    We had a very good plan to deny WC the ball in the first half, only let down by poor goal kicking and getting smashed at stoppages. Clearly WC changed things up at the break (as things were not going their way in general play despite being in front) and our coaching group were utterly clueless to do anything about it.
    "You've got no fear of The Underdog, that's why you will not survive"
    - Spoon, 2007
    - Western Bulldogs, 2016

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  13. #39
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    The mentality of 'Wall of Biggs' in 2016.

    Now it's the 'indifferent uninterested wet blanket of please don't score'.
    We could do with some "Wall of Biggs" desperation all over the ground right now.
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  15. #40
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    We could try to get a return to the men of mayhem back into our game.
    AFL PREMIERS 2016

  16. #41
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    The likes of Gaff, Cripps, Yeo, etc.. shamed our mids with their two-way gut running in the 2nd half tonight. That 2nd half display from our mids was not even close to the required standard in defensive support.

    We had a very good plan to deny WC the ball in the first half, only let down by poor goal kicking and getting smashed at stoppages. Clearly WC changed things up at the break (as things were not going their way in general play despite being in front) and our coaching group were utterly clueless to do anything about it.
    I'd actually like to know what our opposition scouting told us about the different modes to which WCE revert to under different situations. At half time we clearly were more effective in general play right up to the point of execution. The opposition was always going to change things up.

    Now, I was watching the game within a social environment on an internet feed at a Hanoi sports bar, and all I could see was a pathetic defencive effort. But did WE actually come out at half time and play differently in anticipation of WCE likely trying something different themselves?

    Defencive effort aside, something just looked off. Would be interested to know what others think.

  17. #42
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    It's not a coaching issue, it is a lack of the right players in the right areas. We have the worse defence in the AFL. We don't have intercepting tall players like West Coast do? Where is our McGovern, where is our tight nit backline group. I am beginning to think that guys like Cordy, Trengove, Wood, Williams and even Caleb shouldn't be in the backline.

    Caleb gets alot of the ball, but does he instigate attacking footy? Is he a good defender one on one? Cordy is not strong enough or tall enough to play on any decent size forwards, Trengove is shoved around to fill holes. Then we have players that are not ready, like Young.

    Our mids get alot of the ball, but are they damaging enough? There are holes all over the ground, and all Bevo and his assistants can do is plug holes and move them around.

    We need to get more experience into some of these young players and hope they will be better in the next few years.
    Well, from flag winners to irrelevant in 3 years? Players don't draft themselves. Someone isn't up to their job. There have been questions asked about list management, conditioning, coaching tactics, basic skills... a lot in the past couple of years.

    I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say Beveridge isn't at least partly to blame for where we're at now.

    I wouldn't sack him. But there needs to be a review. Cause all of the areas I've mentioned are issues.

  18. #43
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    Seriously BAD? Bevo was a shit kick too but the players don't coach themselves. He relied on the coaches to make him a better player-in the same way our players should be able to rely on the coaches to make them better players. The coach is responsible for playing standards and to give the coaches a pass because they don't kick the ball is (with all due respect) one of those trite things that people say when they don't want to face up to uncomfortable facts. And one of those uncomfortable facts is that the coaching department is underperforming as badly, if not worse than the playing group.

    I don't want to be at the head of the queue with a pitchfork wanting to sack one of only two coaches to coach us to a flag in the last 94 years of AFL footy but we cant just continue to drift along in the manner we have or we wont have a club to follow at all.
    You might be thinking of the wrong guy Td. In his 118 games Bevo kicked 107 goals 56 behinds. He was a good kick for goal that I remember.

  19. #44
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    It’s OK - we will re-sign the coaching group soon.
    “Team Teflon”🤔

  20. #45
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    Re: I seriously dont know

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMahatma View Post
    Well, from flag winners to irrelevant in 3 years? Players don't draft themselves. Someone isn't up to their job. There have been questions asked about list management, conditioning, coaching tactics, basic skills... a lot in the past couple of years.

    I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say Beveridge isn't at least partly to blame for where we're at now.

    I wouldn't sack him. But there needs to be a review. Cause all of the areas I've mentioned are issues.
    A genuine review is definitely needed. Given I am not in the country and don't catch radio and visual media I am not sure whether our leaders in Gordon and Baines have been vocal about our current situation but I suspect they haven't been. If this is the case I actually want to see these two acknowledge that there's something that needs to be addressed and it will be addressed.

    If the football department can't cope with that then so be it. There seems to be a lack of accountability present at the moment and the club needs to get together and acknowledge that all football areas are underperforming and need to improve publicly.

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