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  1. #61
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Remi Moses View Post
    So we should have kept Stringer regardless of the issues players were having with him ?
    Okaaaay
    Agree. He had to go. Simple as that. Not sure why we are even talking about him.

  2. #62
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I'm not so sure, other clubs back up great years with good ones. There is something missing with us, it's not injuries or that the list isn't good enough for us to have a good season. As NBP mentioned it's important to start with a win against Carlton and to have a strong 2nd half of the season.
    Johnno expressed concerns about our game plan off the back of the JLT games. Not personnel, gameplan.
    As far as I can tell everything he said has come true.

    I think our issues are fixable but I really don't think that much can be done mid-season. It will take some analysis and a pre-season of changing strategy to fix our problems - the main issues for mine being ball-retention, pressure on the ball carrier and forwardline efficiency. We still seem to be playing in a similar manner as 2016 and other teams have caught up, changed their style, and gone past us.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  4. #63
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Does anyone else think its time we heard from the coach, what the club is trying to achieve, and (specifically) how he plans to go about it.

    To be fair I can't remember any coach actually doing this in public, but it would be great for the supporters to know that we actually plan further ahead than the next training session. I can't be the only supporter who thought 2016 might have set up a dynasty of success, only to be disappointed by both our lack of success and apparent lack of any discernable direction.

    Is there any value in getting the plan (if there is one) out there, so we can get onboard and at least see some progress. Yes, even in a loss there can be progress.

    I understand it would be a ground breaking move but if anybody would be prepared to step outside the norm it would be Bevo.

    To be honest this year reminds me of the aimless Royce Hart period, no plan, no direction and no hope. That was the worst period in my time of watching the 'Dogs, but this is getting perilously close.
    The truth will set you free,
    but first it will piss you off. ... Gloria Steinem.

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  6. #64
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Not at all, I'd argue that Bevo cost us some currency with Stringer but in the end we had to trade him away
    But there is a theme. We had to trade Stringer, we had to let Dahlhaus go, Libba we have had public issues as well. We seem to have a lot of trouble handling the players that are a bit more "out there" Why? Stringer seems to be moving along OK, Dahlhaus is much better since moving. Why? Players are not all perfect and need to be managed correctly so why do we seem to have issues? Not all good players past and present are perfect role models we need to find a way to manage them better rather than throwing them in the too hard basket.

  7. #65
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Mo77 View Post
    But there is a theme. We had to trade Stringer, we had to let Dahlhaus go, Libba we have had public issues as well. We seem to have a lot of trouble handling the players that are a bit more "out there" Why? Stringer seems to be moving along OK, Dahlhaus is much better since moving. Why? Players are not all perfect and need to be managed correctly so why do we seem to have issues? Not all good players past and present are perfect role models we need to find a way to manage them better rather than throwing them in the too hard basket.
    My guess is that we tried to get the distracted players back on track and they weren't responding leaving us with minimal options.
    Stringer was bad for other players as well and leaving him there would have been a bigger issue
    We made Dahlhaus a good offer based on his form since the GF but he wanted more which he is entitled to do but one that we weren't prepared to match.
    It's not surprising to me that both players have done OK since their departure as it was never a question on their talent just their commitment

    We clearly took our foot off the accelerator in 2017 and momentum is a bitch to get back after some people realise they don't have to be manic in their preparation and dedication. Clearly that was a challenge for Bevo and the club and we fell short of it but trading away Stringer and not offering Dahlhaus overs to stay were the right decisions.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  9. #66
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanette54 View Post
    Does anyone else think its time we heard from the coach, what the club is trying to achieve, and (specifically) how he plans to go about it.

    To be fair I can't remember any coach actually doing this in public, but it would be great for the supporters to know that we actually plan further ahead than the next training session. I can't be the only supporter who thought 2016 might have set up a dynasty of success, only to be disappointed by both our lack of success and apparent lack of any discernable direction.

    Is there any value in getting the plan (if there is one) out there, so we can get onboard and at least see some progress. Yes, even in a loss there can be progress.

    I understand it would be a ground breaking move but if anybody would be prepared to step outside the norm it would be Bevo.

    To be honest this year reminds me of the aimless Royce Hart period, no plan, no direction and no hope. That was the worst period in my time of watching the 'Dogs, but this is getting perilously close.


    It’s always hard to remember how good or bad things were in the past, but hey, those Royce Hart years (yep I was around for them too) don’t remotely resemble where we are at this year. We won two games in 1981 and must have set a new record in losses by more than 10 goals. We were putrid. I’m not happy where we are at this year, the strange thing is a few weeks ago we could have been top 4 if we’d just beaten GC and the Bluebagging cheats. We’d been competitive in our losses. I’m alarmed at our listlessness in the past couple of weeks but it ain’t no 1981, remembering too that we hadn’t won a final for 20 years then (admittedly we’d only made the finals twice)...ok, I’m depressing myself, but we’ve endured worse than this slump!!
    www.bulldogtragician.com A blog about being a lifelong fan of the Dogs and our quixotic attempt to replicate 1954. AND WE DID
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  11. #67
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    Johnno expressed concerns about our game plan off the back of the JLT games. Not personnel, gameplan.
    As far as I can tell everything he said has come true.

    I think our issues are fixable but I really don't think that much can be done mid-season. It will take some analysis and a pre-season of changing strategy to fix our problems - the main issues for mine being ball-retention, pressure on the ball carrier and forwardline efficiency. We still seem to be playing in a similar manner as 2016 and other teams have caught up, changed their style, and gone past us.
    What did he say Mofra? I suspect it was about our forward line.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

  12. #68
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    Plus the club knows best.
    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Seems troll knows best.
    You two lovebirds crack me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    Johnno expressed concerns about our game plan off the back of the JLT games. Not personnel, gameplan.
    As far as I can tell everything he said has come true.

    I think our issues are fixable but I really don't think that much can be done mid-season. It will take some analysis and a pre-season of changing strategy to fix our problems - the main issues for mine being ball-retention, pressure on the ball carrier and forwardline efficiency. We still seem to be playing in a similar manner as 2016 and other teams have caught up, changed their style, and gone past us.
    He was right to an extent, but I don't think what he is commenting on was actually our plan - rather - just how we play when we're not playing well.

    When our pressure is up and we're defending well we can take the ball and move it forward effectively by both hand and foot, probably in a way no other team has been able to do in the past few years. We look a million bucks when make it work.

    When our pressure is down, the opposition is moving it forward freely and is able to set up defencively we have a tendency to move the ball away from goal by hand and it all becomes too much for us and we turn it over and leak, or get bogged down going sideways.

    Like you I think our issues are fixable from an effort and team defence perspective. We actually just need some leadership across both the coaching and senior players to drive the standard. However, there needs to be a change in coaching personnel and approach to match improved effort. The former will have to wait until the end of the year, the latter can actually be put into place now.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  14. #69
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    My guess is that we tried to get the distracted players back on track and they weren't responding leaving us with minimal options.
    Stringer was bad for other players as well and leaving him there would have been a bigger issue
    We made Dahlhaus a good offer based on his form since the GF but he wanted more which he is entitled to do but one that we weren't prepared to match.
    It's not surprising to me that both players have done OK since their departure as it was never a question on their talent just their commitment

    We clearly took our foot off the accelerator in 2017 and momentum is a bitch to get back after some people realise they don't have to be manic in their preparation and dedication. Clearly that was a challenge for Bevo and the club and we fell short of it but trading away Stringer and not offering Dahlhaus overs to stay were the right decisions.
    How distracted was Roughead?

    He's come out this week and said he'd have quit football if he had to stay at the Bulldogs.

    Not only did he hate football while at the club but we couldn't find a role for him on field (he'd have 10 goals kicked on him every week in the disorganised chaos that's our defence) but he can be the centre piece in the defence of a top 4 team pushing for a premiership. The question has to be asked why are so many players are so unhappy. Macrae looks like the next candidate this year. The results just seem to be the output of something really broken.
    Western Bulldogs: We exist to win premierships

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  16. #70
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    How distracted was Roughead?

    He's come out this week and said he'd have quit football if he had to stay at the Bulldogs.

    Not only did he hate football while at the club but we couldn't find a role for him on field (he'd have 10 goals kicked on him every week in the disorganised chaos that's our defence) but he can be the centre piece in the defence of a top 4 team pushing for a premiership. The question has to be asked why are so many players are so unhappy. Macrae looks like the next candidate this year. The results just seem to be the output of something really broken.
    I don't think Roughead was an issue at all. We should have tried more to keep him. Macca was really taken to task for trying him as a defender (and where he actually did OK) and yet Bevo who seems to crave versatility couldn't really find a him a role for a player who can play as a key defender and ruckman. Buckley will seem like a inspired coach.

    I know some players need that fresh start but he'd been with us since he was 18 and he'd been a greater leader and it's a shame he felt like he needed a fresh start elsewhere and that he wanted away from the Whitten Oval rather than play for us.
    He's no world beater but it's good to see he has kicked on in his new role
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  17. #71
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    It makes you wounder that the dogs thought rotating the coaching panel after 2016 was their idea to freshen things up for the players and have a different perspective.

    In hind sight maybe we should have kept the winning formula going until it got stale. Its good for the coaches to gain experience across the board but is it good for the players after they bond with a coach and have ultimate success.

    If the coaches need something to freshen them up maybe that's when they look elsewhere at another club but at club level you stay where you are until it doesn't work anymore.
    Don't piss off old people
    The older we get the less "LIFE IN PRISON" is a deterrent...

  18. #72
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I don't think Roughead was an issue at all. We should have tried more to keep him. Macca was really taken to task for trying him as a defender (and where he actually did OK) and yet Bevo who seems to crave versatility couldn't really find a him a role for a player who can play as a key defender and ruckman. Buckley will seem like a inspired coach
    It's hard to understand. We seem to only want to play players in multiple positions if they show they can't do it.

    Roughead seemed his most natural as a defender and is probably playing career best footy as one at the moment. There were some on this forum that claimed not only should he have never played in defence but it ruined his development. They were ridiculous claims at the time and just look absurd now.
    Western Bulldogs: We exist to win premierships

  19. #73
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    The place doesn’t need to be blown up and rebuilt from the ground up but it’s getting close to that. Collingwood and Richmond have both been in similar spots in recent time (from an external perspective) and they managed to turn the corner. How did they do it?

    We’ve gone from being one of the most committed and close knit playing groups to an absolute basket case in 2 years with a number of players dreading the place. That sort of environment is fostered by the coaching group, IMO. We need a complete clean out of the assistants at the very least and Bevo needs someone senior to reign him in.

    And as much as I love CG as a club legend, I’ve got no faith in his ability as a back office manager.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  20. #74
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by Greystache View Post
    It's hard to understand. We seem to only want to play players in multiple positions if they show they can't do it.

    Roughead seemed his most natural as a defender and is probably playing career best footy as one at the moment. There were some on this forum that claimed not only should he have never played in defence but it ruined his development. They were ridiculous claims at the time and just look absurd now.
    I talked to Macca once and asked him about the move and I got the impression he didn't see it as a long term solution but more around his faith that Roughead could make it work.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  21. #75
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    Re: When things aren’t always as they seem

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I talked to Macca once and asked him about the move and I got the impression he didn't see it as a long term solution but more around his faith that Roughead could make it work.
    We had no one else that tall to take on some of the taller forwards, so I guess Macca was trying to fill it. Minson was a better ruckman anyway. At the time I thought Roughead was only just serviceable in that role.
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    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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