When things aren’t always as they seem

[The bulldog tragician]

Most of us, including me, are feeling a deep gloom about our current prospects and future. The chance that we will slide even further down the ladder, probably win a spoon in 2020, is even being discussed.

This isn’t about trying to be positive or pollyannaish for the sake of it, but... if we went back in the time machine to 2014, even allowing for our realisation that Mcartney wasn’t the right coach, did any of us think our list was in good shape and that a flag was only two years away?

We would have said we lacked quality key position players ... BUT we won a flag with a forward line which only had Stringer as a genuine tall (albeit one who was lucky to be in the team and at 192 cm, not the size of the ‘gorillas’.) We got amazing contributions from a former tagged, two 19 yr olds, and a guy with three busted knees.

At the other end of the ground, no one was raving at the prospect of a backline held together by three former rookies, including two blokes over 30, one who wasn’t a defender and who some thought should retire or head back to Frankston seconds. Fletcher Roberts and Joel Hamling, even in Sept 2016, were nobody’s idea of quality talls, we would have hoped Talua would be That Guy.

We weren’t thrilled about our ruck stocks, never having been too excited about Roughie and not foreseeing that our GReat White Hope of the Forward line, Tom Boyd, would not play a traditional forward role in our premiership but would ruck instead.

If we’d have been told our most naturally talented player Bob Murphy wouldn’t have been out there our disbelief would have grown even further.

I don’t know what’s going wrong at present, but we still have 3 premiership midfielders still very much in their prime (Bont, Macrae, Libba) and two who since then have played midfield (Dunkley, McLean). The sort of genuine tall you could build a team around in Aaron Naughton, and the best young midfielder I’ve seen since Bont in Bailey Smith.

So is our list any worse or less unbalanced than the group from 2016 or were they exceptionally well coached and motivated? How come the versatility idea for some of our lesser lights (Picken a forward, M Boyd a defender, Z Cordy a defensive forward etc) all worked back then? Can’t the ship be turned around again quickly, with some hard conversations and honesty from coaches and players alike? Are things not as bad as they seem?

[mjp]

Yep - cool thread.

I agree with it. In 2014 the place nearly burned to the ground. Let's hope we don't need that type of event to turn the ship.

[Hotdog60]

This where the loss of Monty had a telling impact. He was there for the climb and left when the wheels had full momentum.
Not afraid to tell some home truths even in public.
So the main change from that time is him and we have gone backwards.
It's only looking from the outside in and may be he had put himself in a place that couldn't be recovered but I think how different would thing have been if he was still at the club.
It could have worse or maybe he would have kept the players focus and we may have had a second flag.
Only inside the kennel know and Monty may have wanted to leave because he got over looked in the first place.

[Twodogs]

This where the loss of Monty had a telling impact. He was there for the climb and left when the wheels had full momentum.
Not afraid to tell some home truths even in public.
So the main change from that time is him and we have gone backwards.
It's only looking from the outside in and may be he had put himself in a place that couldn't be recovered but I think how different would thing have been if he was still at the club.
It could have worse or maybe he would have kept the players focus and we may have had a second flag.
Only inside the kennel know and Monty may have wanted to leave because he got over looked in the first place.

He was disappointed to miss out on the main gig in 2014 (there were murmurings that he had been promised the job) but thankfully he hung around for nearly 2 years after Bevo's appointment because he is loyal and wanted to help the players and Bevo transition into the new coach's era. Surely he would have left at the end of 2014 if his nose was completely out of joint.

He left just after the last H & A round in 2016 in order to prepare for any new coaching jobs that may have come up without the distraction of being involved full time (and they work a lot of hours) at a club.

[The bulldog tragician]

This where the loss of Monty had a telling impact. He was there for the climb and left when the wheels had full momentum.
Not afraid to tell some home truths even in public.
So the main change from that time is him and we have gone backwards.
It's only looking from the outside in and may be he had put himself in a place that couldn't be recovered but I think how different would thing have been if he was still at the club.
It could have worse or maybe he would have kept the players focus and we may have had a second flag.
Only inside the kennel know and Monty may have wanted to leave because he got over looked in the first place.

I don’t think he was the ‘main change’ though of course a significant one. The staggering change is not the loss of one coach, surely it is that NINE premiership players are gone.
Natural attrition/injury: M Boyd and, though a bit prematurely, Picken and the very unlucky Clay Smith
Still playing elsewhere: Stringer, Dahlhaus, Roughead, Hamling.
Mental illness: Boyd.
God knows: the enigmatic Shane Biggs.
Only two in their 30s and foreseeable. The inability to keep the core of that group together is one of the things that is most regrettable in my view.

However, my main point is that the raw mix of talent in the group in 2014 as a whole did not have us salivating, but they were more talented AS A GROUP than we anticipated, with ‘lesser lights’ contributing in unforeseen ways. We did not have 22 stars out there, and you could make a case that our current list contains the same blend of unique talents, plodders that we think we know their ceiling but can thrive in a role given the chance, guys that still have immense potential. All is not lost, I think Bevo needs more support because like all coaches, he is in danger of becoming stuck in tracks of thinking and stick to them to the bitter end.

[bulldogtragic]

In our history, we've probably had 20+ bad periods. In our history we've won two premierships. There's hope to turn things around, but statically at least, this is probably just another bad period. 2016 is the exception, not the rule based on our history. I do hope things aren't as dire as they seem to be and will be if there's no positive change.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Out of interest where is Monty now?

I still hate seeing Stringer playing elsewhere. He was frustrating but he was - at times - worth the price of admission alone.

Reality is we are rebuilding now and need more elite, exciting talent. Huge draft coming up - plenty of holes to fill, we are crying out for some raw exciting players to make footy fun again because we’ve been dull for 3 years now.

[Grantysghost]

Out of interest where is Monty now?

I still hate seeing Stringer playing elsewhere. He was frustrating but he was - at times - worth the price of admission alone.

Reality is we are rebuilding now and need more elite, exciting talent. Huge draft coming up - plenty of holes to fill, we are crying out for some raw exciting players to make footy fun again because we’ve been dull for 3 years now.

Port Adelaide I believe

[Axe Man]

Port Adelaide I believe

Yes defence coach at Port. Only started after the end of last season, not sure what he did in the previous 2 years?

[Bulldog4life]

Yes defence coach at Port. Only started after the end of last season, not sure what he did in the previous 2 years?

Coaching at one of the private schools in Melbourne.

[Grantysghost]

Yes defence coach at Port. Only started after the end of last season, not sure what he did in the previous 2 years?

He was at Melbourne Grammar as football director

[Happy Days]

I still hate seeing Stringer playing elsewhere. He was frustrating but he was - at times - worth the price of admission alone.

Yeah I'm the same - I've heard some pretty cooked stuff about why he was booted that make me not wholly disagree with the decision, but a bigger part of me thinks that Jake wasn't the only unprofessional one in all of this. Part of being an effective man-manager is having the emotional intelligence to navigate conflicts, and Bevo (who I still love) has several black marks against his name in this respect.

Also- it really really irritates me when talented players leaving the club is rationalised as a good thing based on something external to their ability (be it the return gotten (Dahlhaus), the equity achieved (Hamling), or the harmonious effect of being cleansed of their personality (Jake)). We still lose considerable talents in areas of need and replace them with nothing. These are all losses.

[Twodogs]

Yeah I'm the same - I've heard some pretty cooked stuff about why he was booted that make me not wholly disagree with the decision, but a bigger part of me thinks that Jake wasn't the only unprofessional one in all of this. Part of being an effective man-manager is having the emotional intelligence to navigate conflicts, and Bevo (who I still love) has several black marks against his name in this respect.

Also- it really really irritates me when talented players leaving the club is rationalised as a good thing based on something external to their ability (be it the return gotten (Dahlhaus), the equity achieved (Hamling), or the harmonious effect of being cleansed of their personality (Jake)). We still lose considerable talents in areas of need and replace them with nothing. These are all losses.

My mum used to say "why cant we have nice things?" We seem to be hell bent on proving that we can't handle good things.

[Greystache]

Yeah I'm the same - I've heard some pretty cooked stuff about why he was booted that make me not wholly disagree with the decision, but a bigger part of me thinks that Jake wasn't the only unprofessional one in all of this. Part of being an effective man-manager is having the emotional intelligence to navigate conflicts, and Bevo (who I still love) has several black marks against his name in this respect.

Also- it really really irritates me when talented players leaving the club is rationalised as a good thing based on something external to their ability (be it the return gotten (Dahlhaus), the equity achieved (Hamling), or the harmonious effect of being cleansed of their personality (Jake)). We still lose considerable talents in areas of need and replace them with nothing. These are all losses.

There's also some sections dismissing the regular thumpings as being acceptable because we're a young team, totally ignoring the fact the past 3 years we've had a number of mature and experienced players walking out the door and needing to be replaced with kids. The team doesn't get any older and the youth excuse becomes a permanent crutch.

We can convince ourselves that losing mature players is a good thing because they weren't helping anyway but you have to wonder why guys like Roughead, Dahlhause, Stringer, Hamling can go to other clubs and play a leading role while we thought they either couldn't contribute or weren't worth the trouble to a team at the bottom of the ladder and sinking further. Clearly our people management is sadly lacking.

[bornadog]

We all remember Jake pre mid 2016 and his ability, then his life changed for a number of reasons. He has never hit the same heights as his 2015 AA year, and pretty much was a non-event in the finals. Given he was a bully and trouble maker at the club, with no sympathy for Boyd and the things he said and did to him, his off field issues which I won't go into, I am glad he was given his marching orders. To blame his departure on a lack of management at the club is really a joke.

He has continued to be a good ordinary footballer, but nothing special. Good luck to him - the end.