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  1. #46
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    By who?
    Me for one. Pretty obvious I would have thought.

  2. #47
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    I am sure Bevo has his favourites as all coaches do....
    - those that follow team rules.
    - those that keep to team structures.
    - those that don't go kick chasing and allow their opponent to be free to hurt the team going the other way.
    - those that listen to instructions and then execute them to the best of their ability
    - those that give full effort 100% of the time

    I am continually amazed at how many fans just use the superficial statistics like kicks and handballs to judge players. They play such a small part in determining the outcome of games.
    Footscray member since 1980.

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  4. #48
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    I am sure Bevo has his favourites as all coaches do....
    - those that follow team rules.
    - those that keep to team structures.
    - those that don't go kick chasing and allow their opponent to be free to hurt the team going the other way.
    - those that listen to instructions and then execute them to the best of their ability
    - those that give full effort 100% of the time

    I am continually amazed at how many fans just use the superficial statistics like kicks and handballs to judge players. They play such a small part in determining the outcome of games.
    Thanks for this list of what gets players selected. It enlightens me.

    Now I understand how Gardner will get a game after 3 possessions and how Boyd, for example, was selected after some very low counts.

    Now I understand why (as I mentioned earlier) Roberts was dropped after what I thought was a good game and 8 others had less of the ball (Trengove had 4 possessions that day - all handballs). No criticism of Trengove, he is very important to the team now.

    It also clarifies an understanding of why the club consistently ends the home and away part of the season below where it was the year before. (6,7,10,14?)

    When I sit watching games unfold I will finally understand what I am observing. I might even be able to explain it to others around me.

  5. #49
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Thanks for this list of what gets players selected. It enlightens me.

    Now I understand how Gardner will get a game after 3 possessions and how Boyd, for example, was selected after some very low counts.

    Now I understand why (as I mentioned earlier) Roberts was dropped after what I thought was a good game and 8 others had less of the ball (Trengove had 4 possessions that day - all handballs). No criticism of Trengove, he is very important to the team now.

    It also clarifies an understanding of why the club consistently ends the home and away part of the season below where it was the year before. (6,7,10,14?)

    When I sit watching games unfold I will finally understand what I am observing. I might even be able to explain it to others around me.
    You're not letting this Roberts thing go are you? You also realise we won the flag and more home and away games in 2016 than we did the year prior, right?

    Flamethrower has given you criteria coaches could use as an alternative to possessions. It might be helpful to acknowledge those as possible reasons some players get selected ahead of others, and debate their merits.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  6. #50
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamethrower View Post
    I am sure Bevo has his favourites as all coaches do....
    - those that follow team rules.
    - those that keep to team structures.
    - those that don't go kick chasing and allow their opponent to be free to hurt the team going the other way.
    - those that listen to instructions and then execute them to the best of their ability
    - those that give full effort 100% of the time

    I am continually amazed at how many fans just use the superficial statistics like kicks and handballs to judge players. They play such a small part in determining the outcome of games.
    100%. Out of 120 minutes of footy a high possession player who gets the ball 30 times would be lucky to have the ball in his hands for just 1 of those 120 minutes (longer if they are having a set shot I suppose), so what is that player doing for the other 119 minutes? Coaches are looking at what players doing (a) when they don't have the ball (b) their team has the ball and (c) when the opposition has the ball. When they get these things right they are going a long way to being a coaches fav and getting a game. The fringe benefit is they will probably become a good footballer in the meantime.

    So yes sometimes it seems players might get more of a fair go than others, but we don't know what KPI's are set for each individual player.
    They've done studies you know, 60% of the time, it works every time!
    Brian Fantana.

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  8. #51
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    You're not letting this Roberts thing go are you? You also realise we won the flag and more home and away games in 2016 than we did the year prior, right?

    Flamethrower has given you criteria coaches could use as an alternative to possessions. It might be helpful to acknowledge those as possible reasons some players get selected ahead of others, and debate their merits.
    I am not sure you read the bold part carefully. Kicks and handballs play such a small part in determining the results???

    I can’t believe anyone thinks that. And

    1. most of the premiership team was built by a previous group. They won 29 games in 2015/2016.

    2. we have lost twice as many home and away games as we have won since the bye in 2017. Put another way, our success rate has halved and we have been beaten by lower quality opponents.

    3. And now we are relieved to beat the bottom team by 3 points, because we were humiliated in the previous three games .

    Give me something that explains why the present leadership took us from premiership to cellar dwellers in such a short time.

    oh, you have. That ridiculous list.

  9. #52
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    I am not sure you read the bold part carefully. Kicks and handballs play such a small part in determining the results???

    I can’t believe anyone thinks that. And

    1. most of the premiership team was built by a previous group. They won 29 games in 2015/2016.

    2. we have lost twice as many home and away games as we have won since the bye in 2017. Put another way, our success rate has halved and we have been beaten by lower quality opponents.

    3. And now we are relieved to beat the bottom team by 3 points, because we were humiliated in the previous three games .

    Give me something that explains why the present leadership took us from premiership to cellar dwellers in such a short time.

    oh, you have. That ridiculous list.
    Yep, the team and list was inherited, the current coaching team got it to a flag and it has been in a state of flux since then and is now rebuilding.

    We have done the reasons why we have struggled in the years since to death, you seem to based on what you've stated in this thread think it's largely because we're not selecting players based on possessions. That's fine, though if I was you I'd be really cautious of calling other people's opinions or reasonings ridiculous on an open forum.

    Ratsmac elaborates on Flamethrower's point really well, it would be wise of you to open your mind and consider what each of these posters is attempting to communicate.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  11. #53
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Yep, the team and list was inherited, the current coaching team got it to a flag and it has been in a state of flux since then and is now rebuilding.

    We have done the reasons why we have struggled in the years since to death, you seem to based on what you've stated in this thread think it's largely because we're not selecting players based on possessions. That's fine, though if I was you I'd be really cautious of calling other people's opinions or reasonings ridiculous on an open forum.

    Ratsmac elaborates on Flamethrower's point really well, it would be wise of you to open your mind and consider what each of these posters is attempting to communicate.
    Sorry for the word ridiculous.

  12. #54
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    1. The Daniel backline experiment was fun while it lasted

    2. Cordy is not a KPD

    3. We are playing some dud/cooked players who hopefully will not not be with us next year eg Dickson, Dale.
    The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.

  13. #55
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Rot View Post
    1. The Daniel backline experiment was fun while it lasted

    2. Cordy is not a KPD

    3. We are playing some dud/cooked players who hopefully will not not be with us next year eg Dickson, Dale.
    Agree about CD. Gave up some key goals that made my eyes water. Is at times kicking when he should be hand balling.
    Not sure about Tinder King. I thought Tory worked pretty hard. Didn't have a great day, but every time I saw him off ball, going for it. He's that kind of player who everyone will write off, then come out and kick a bag. Late career Gia was a bit like that.
    Dale on the other hand, just seems a little prone to doing clever things that don't work out. I could use one less Bailey in the side anyway. I'm an old man and it confuses me.
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

  14. #56
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by chef View Post
    I dont think theres any doubt certain footballers get more of a chance than others with Bevo. He has his favourites.
    Yeah. Roarke Smith seemed to jump the queue a fair bit IIRC, or is this wrong?
    You don't develop courage by being happy in your relationships every day. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity. ― Epicurus

  15. #57
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    1. Carlton seem to be a team we don't match up overly well with. Even when we were playing far better (2015/16) - we never really have gotten a hold of them.

    2. There is a serious case for Dunks to be made Vice Captain when Bontempelli becomes captain next year.

    3. Lipinski's hands are as clean as anyone, he's a one grab player.

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  17. #58
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    The problem with Daniel and Cordy is they are put in situations where they are not able to succeed. Daniel (my favourite player) can kick accurately over 40 metres, but that doesn’t get the ball far enough from opposition goal even with a 20 run. If the ball goes to a contest it can spill back into the 50 metre arc and the opposition gets a shot at goal. And it often does spill when we have such a short backline. We need a better plan for restarting play. We also need some other plans too.
    I disagree. It is the little "cute" kicks Daniel does that creates the turnovers and catches us out. He also runs around in circles meaning the guys on the lead are left flat footed or covered by the time he kicks. He needs to give off at first option.

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  19. #59
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Rot View Post
    1. The Daniel backline experiment was fun while it lasted

    2. Cordy is not a KPD

    3. We are playing some dud/cooked players who hopefully will not not be with us next year eg Dickson, Dale.
    At the half way point of the year, plenty of football commentators have Caleb Daniel in their All Australian half back line.

    Pretty harsh commentary on Dickson also, one of our best finals players in my life time, kicked 2 goals and had 7 score involvements on Saturday night.

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  21. #60
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    Re: Three things you have learned round 13 2019 v Carlton.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullies View Post
    I disagree. It is the little "cute" kicks Daniel does that creates the turnovers and catches us out. He also runs around in circles meaning the guys on the lead are left flat footed or covered by the time he kicks. He needs to give off at first option.
    ... if there is an option.

    There are times he has to hold the ball as there are no options. Simply blazing away in the modern game means a turnover which is the no 1 source for scores.
    At times we need harder working players up the ground, which is why I am a little mystified by Gardner automatically getting another game.
    Forget his stats, how many contests did he get to? How many leads did he create? For mine that is the worrying element of his game, not being brushed aside by Casbault easily for just getting 3 touches. Being a KPF is a tough gig (especially early in your career) but is his actual effort and effect enough? He hasn't even played as a full time forward at VFL level.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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