WB FightBack30 V Melbourne R17 2019

[bornadog]

we risk Naughton by playing him in the ruck. High injury rate for part time ruckmen.
And we waste Schache by playing him in the ruck. Has contributed nothing this year and it depletes the forward line where he is important.
And we rob the backline by playing Trengove in the ruck.
And we will not be so lucky again when playing Dunkley in the ruck.

You keep saying this but have no solution. We need a number one ruck, and a second ruck when number one is resting. That is why we play Schache, or Naughton and this time Trengove in the ruck. Who else plays ruck? Please don't say Sweet, as he is not AFL standard at this stage.

Gawn’s 14 kicks were more valuable than English’s 6. I would love to see English kick 50 metres as a first option instead of handball. Then he might have been as valuable.

English's marks in the last line of defence saved a few goals. Gawn is the AFL number one/two ruckman - Tim has played 23 games, Gawn 114 and at his peak 6 years older. I think give credit where credit is due.

the Dogs did win as expected. That is because Dunkley’s 2 goals were better than his brother’s 1. And the rest of the team played well.

That is very simplistic

[Danjul]

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that impossible? The act of sharking the tap surely means it is not a tap to advantage anymore.

Exactly.

The forum comments suggest that the hitouts to advantage are the relevant statistic, and where we get killed most weeks. They keep the opposition in the game and give them a win even the Dogs are the better team.

The coach’ Comments about setting up to shark the opposition hitouts are simply propaganda. We have a situation that should never have been allowed to develop. And it has defined the season.

[bornadog]

Exactly.

The forum comments suggest that the hitouts to advantage are the relevant statistic, and where we get killed most weeks. They keep the opposition in the game and give them a win even the Dogs are the better team.

The coach’ Comments about setting up to shark the opposition hitouts are simply propaganda. We have a situation that should never have been allowed to develop. And it has defined the season.

Gawn 34 hitouts, Preuss 17, total 51. 20 to advantage, means we got the rest of the balls ie 31 - that is why we won.

[jeemak]

Exactly.

The forum comments suggest that the hitouts to advantage are the relevant statistic, and where we get killed most weeks. They keep the opposition in the game and give them a win even the Dogs are the better team.

The coach’ Comments about setting up to shark the opposition hitouts are simply propaganda. We have a situation that should never have been allowed to develop. And it has defined the season.

How can they have defined the season if the same thing is happening and we're putting ourselves in a position to possibly play finals on the back of actually defending the ground and constraining the oppositions ability to score freely?

The ruck situation isn't ideal, and we should have known we needed more support in the area given the issues with Tom Boyd. But, on face value there is very little evidence to suggest that with the personnel we have available to us that we would be competing at a higher level with a different ruck set up.

Pulling Trengove out of full back and having him ruck as first option leaves us exposed defencively, putting in Sweet means we have an additional big in the side and we lose run and ball usage ability, unless we want one of Naughton or Schache not to play or play defencively (in the case of Naughton), weakening our forward line.

Talking about sharking the opposition's ruck tapping isn't propaganda, it's what any sane and sensible midfield set-up would do if faced with the personnel variances we are every week. Sure it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens and will continue to happen. The idea is to ensure you keep a balance between that and being defencive around stoppages, which is what we've struggled with more than I'd like.

[hujsh]

Yeah if we take our chances they're out of the game at 3 quarter time. Ruckwork didn't keep Melbourne in it this time, we did.

[Bulldog4life]

Bobby Skilton won 3 Brownlow medals roving to the other side's ruckman. It has been going on for a very long time.

[Danjul]

You keep saying this but have no solution. We need a number one ruck, and a second ruck when number one is resting. That is why we play Schache, or Naughton and this time Trengove in the ruck. Who else plays ruck? Please don't say Sweet, as he is not AFL standard at this stage.

English's marks in the last line of defence saved a few goals. Gawn is the AFL number one/two ruckman - Tim has played 23 games, Gawn 114 and at his peak 6 years older. I think give credit where credit is due.

We outplayed a bottom team and fell over the line. Three weeks ago we humiliated Collingwood but still lost. Stop saying that there’s no problem and anyway there’s nothing that can be done. There is a problem and there are people in the club who are smart enough to shuffle the pieces and make a better picture.

English was not first ruck standard at the end of last year in the VFL. He was consistently pushed aside by bigger bodies.

Sweet is a better tap ruckman in the VFL than English was at this stage last year.

All he has to do is limit the carnage. What else does he have to do? Nothing. Does it matter if Sweet gets beaten? No. Let him ruck 100 minutes....
......and let English, Schache, Naughton, Trengove and others get on with winning the game. They can do it.

(No one has considered using English as a tall utility, I think he could be exceptional in that role.)

This is not criticising English, he has heeps to offer. He is tall and exceptional. Time for the club to focus more on the exceptional.

How many hitouts to advantage has Schache had this season? None.
Do we want Naughton injured? No.

At the moment the ruck is simply a distraction for them.

[Danjul]

Bobby Skilton won 3 Brownlow medals roving to the other side's ruckman. It has been going on for a very long time.

Not sure of the timing, but the Swans still took Barry Round.

[bornadog]

We outplayed a bottom team and fell over the line. Three weeks ago we humiliated Collingwood but still lost. Stop saying that there’s no problem and anyway there’s nothing that can be done. There is a problem and there are people in the club who are smart enough to shuffle the pieces and make a better picture.

English was not first ruck standard at the end of last year in the VFL. He was consistently pushed aside by bigger bodies.

Sweet is a better tap ruckman in the VFL than English was at this stage last year.

All he has to do is limit the carnage. What else does he have to do? Nothing. Does it matter if Sweet gets beaten? No. Let him ruck 100 minutes....
......and let English, Schache, Naughton, Trengove and others get on with winning the game. They can do it.

(No one has considered using English as a tall utility, I think he could be exceptional in that role.)

This is not criticising English, he has heeps to offer. He is tall and exceptional. Time for the club to focus more on the exceptional.

How many hitouts to advantage has Schache had this season? None.
Do we want Naughton injured? No.

At the moment the ruck is simply a distraction for them.

I once asked Will Minson the difference between VFL and AFL, and he said, if I can get 27 disposals at VFL, that tells the story.

I am not saying there isn't an issue with hitouts, what I am saying is the way we are playing it, I don't have a problem with it.

This is not the 1980's when you can have a lumbering ruckman like Sweet tapping the ball down and then doing stuff all during the game. It just doesn't work that way.

Danjul - enjoy the win, enjoy the last 2 as well and who knows where the season will take us. We are on the improve with a young inexperienced side that is getting better every week.

[GVGjr]

You keep saying this but have no solution. We need a number one ruck, and a second ruck when number one is resting. That is why we play Schache, or Naughton and this time Trengove in the ruck. Who else plays ruck? Please don't say Sweet, as he is not AFL standard at this stage.

Clearly we don't have many options for this year and we will have to live with the consequences but the focus has to be about finding some support for English for next year in particular

Losing Boyd hurt us but we were very shortsighted with our planning given his struggles. Enough said

I think the days of playing two ruckman like Melbourne tried yesterday are over but equally we must have some other options.
There is merit in what Danjul writes in that it's taking a higher risk than is necessary with our younger players like Dunkley, Naughton and even Schache than we should be. We either need to find a KP defender to free up Trengove more or find a stronger bodied forward who can provide more that 5 minutes a quarter in the ruck as required.

[GVGjr]

Sweet is a better tap ruckman in the VFL than English was at this stage last year.

All he has to do is limit the carnage. What else does he have to do? Nothing. Does it matter if Sweet gets beaten? No. Let him ruck 100 minutes....
......and let English, Schache, Naughton, Trengove and others get on with winning the game. They can do it.

(No one has considered using English as a tall utility, I think he could be exceptional in that role.)

This is not criticising English, he has heeps to offer. He is tall and exceptional. Time for the club to focus more on the exceptional.

How many hitouts to advantage has Schache had this season? None.
Do we want Naughton injured? No.

At the moment the ruck is simply a distraction for them.

Sweet is a mile off being a senior player in my opinion. He's also not the quality tap ruckman many think he is.
He needs another season or so before he might force his way into calculations

Gawn would have run him ragged by half time, Tim actually started putting work into Gawn at times with his mobility

At the moment Sweet doesn't quite have the feel for the game offering little value around the ground but the scope for improvement is there

[Danjul]

How can they have defined the season if the same thing is happening and we're putting ourselves in a position to possibly play finals on the back of actually defending the ground and constraining the oppositions ability to score freely?

The ruck situation isn't ideal, and we should have known we needed more support in the area given the issues with Tom Boyd. But, on face value there is very little evidence to suggest that with the personnel we have available to us that we would be competing at a higher level with a different ruck set up.

Pulling Trengove out of full back and having him ruck as first option leaves us exposed defencively, putting in Sweet means we have an additional big in the side and we lose run and ball usage ability, unless we want one of Naughton or Schache not to play or play defencively (in the case of Naughton), weakening our forward line.

Talking about sharking the opposition's ruck tapping isn't propaganda, it's what any sane and sensible midfield set-up would do if faced with the personnel variances we are every week. Sure it doesn't happen all the time, but it happens and will continue to happen. The idea is to ensure you keep a balance between that and being defencive around stoppages, which is what we've struggled with more than I'd like.

In my opinion (which counts for nothing) we should have won the games against ...

....Gold Coast, Fremantle, North And Collingwood (the second time - the Pies had 100 less possessions, 6 of our players had 30 possessions - so running with the ball isn’t the answer ).

What was a significant common problem in those games? The opponents hitouts to advantage.

That still allows Carlton their first win for the season.

What was done as an attempt to limit this ruck damage? Have another runner who gets less than 10 possessions.

It is not a matter of possibly playing finals. Finals should be a given with this group.

[The Doctor]

Not sure of the timing, but the Swans still took Barry Round.

not sure what you mean but Barry Round joined the Swans about 5 years after Skilton retired

[Danjul]

not sure what you mean but Barry Round joined the Swans about 5 years after Skilton retired

They were looking for a ruckman, possibly so they would not have to rely on sharking the opposition hitouts.

[Go_Dogs]

Yep, easily one of our bests for so many different reasons.

I also liked this week, and last week too, that Bailey Smith has found himself in the position to kick a crucial goal in a very tight match with the heat of opponents on, and he nailed them.

Give it 2 years and we'll iron that out