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  1. #61
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    200 hours would possibly result in some improvement. Depends on a few factors like how they’re practising and what guidance they get. 100% improvement means they’re literally twice as good as they are now as professional players with years of experience. A 10% improvement would probably be incredible. I have no idea how many hours it would take to get there or if it’s even possible/realistic for most players.

    You also have to ask how long are these hours spread over and what’s the opportunity cost of investing more in kicking specifically?

    As for kicking 9/10 goals from 50... can anyone do that? Literally anyone in the history of the game?
    For most of the players 1 extra goal every few games would be somewhere between a 100% and an infinite improvement.

    And are you suggesting there is no one at the club who can give guidance? That would explain the poor disposals.

  2. #62
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    For most of the players 1 extra goal every few games would be somewhere between a 100% and an infinite improvement.

    And are you suggesting there is no one at the club who can give guidance? That would explain the poor disposals.
    Okay move the goalposts. You said it would improve their kicking 100% and the context of the conversation clearly includes field kicking. You aren’t improving anyone’s kicking skills 100% by any metric unless starting from a very low base (international rookie perhaps)

    As for the guidance I’m saying that it comes in various forms. Are they going to the AIS and having specialists analyse their technique? Is a coach giving them general tips? Is someone helping them with the mental aspect of goal kicking?

    It’s easy to say ‘put in 200 hours and be a better kick’ but how are you doing it? Under what conditions? Is this extra on top of existing skills work or 200 hours pulled from something else? What do we do currently to address our kicking skills? (I certainly don’t know aside from training drills).

    You’ve thrown out random numbers and frankly I’m not convinced by your defense of them. If you want the club to focus more on skills then that’s fine if there’s actually going to be a benefit. Without evidence to suggest there will be payoff of the time invested it’s hard to get onboard though. Perhaps there’s a point of diminishing returns when it comes to working on your kicking where you’d be better off focusing on say endurance instead (an example not an actual suggestion)

  3. #63
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    In addition to Mofra's i'd even suggest GWS have a better midfield. Congillio, Taranto, Kelly, Ward, Hopper.

    The closer we get to the end of the season the more frustrated I am getting. We should be playing finals.
    I only left GWS out because of Ward's knee although you could argue Coniglio's transformation from the best two-way running midfielder in the competition to a complete one-way runner also impacts my opinion.

    I think GWS have the cash to keep everyone, but based on Coniglio's play I think he goes. Apologies for going off-topic.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  4. #64
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    I only left GWS out because of Ward's knee although you could argue Coniglio's transformation from the best two-way running midfielder in the competition to a complete one-way runner also impacts my opinion.

    I think GWS have the cash to keep everyone, but based on Coniglio's play I think he goes. Apologies for going off-topic.
    What are you trying to say about Coniglio - has he gotten better or worse?
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  5. #65
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Okay move the goalposts. You said it would improve their kicking 100% and the context of the conversation clearly includes field kicking. You aren’t improving anyone’s kicking skills 100% by any metric unless starting from a very low base (international rookie perhaps)

    As for the guidance I’m saying that it comes in various forms. Are they going to the AIS and having specialists analyse their technique? Is a coach giving them general tips? Is someone helping them with the mental aspect of goal kicking?

    It’s easy to say ‘put in 200 hours and be a better kick’ but how are you doing it? Under what conditions? Is this extra on top of existing skills work or 200 hours pulled from something else? What do we do currently to address our kicking skills? (I certainly don’t know aside from training drills).

    You’ve thrown out random numbers and frankly I’m not convinced by your defense of them. If you want the club to focus more on skills then that’s fine if there’s actually going to be a benefit. Without evidence to suggest there will be payoff of the time invested it’s hard to get onboard though. Perhaps there’s a point of diminishing returns when it comes to working on your kicking where you’d be better off focusing on say endurance instead (an example not an actual suggestion)
    Good points.

    Comments on the forum suggest that both the field kicking and shots at goal were terrible in the first quarter of Sunday’s game. Personally I thought it was close to the worst I have seen.

    Missing goals from 35 metres must be fixable.

    The same goes for missing a teammate on their own 30 metres away when not under pressure.

    Between now and the start of the season there is plenty of time, If the problem is acknowledged and the desire to fix it is present.

  6. #66
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Based on what? Taranto is 11th for disposals, then the rest fall away.

    I am basing this on 2019, and Kelly and Ward haven't played.
    Based on my opinion. I’m not too fussed on total disposals. I think GWS midfielders have more hurt factor.

    Reality is, it’s a fairly close call.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  7. #67
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    For most of the players 1 extra goal every few games would be somewhere between a 100% and an infinite improvement.

    And are you suggesting there is no one at the club who can give guidance? That would explain the poor disposals.
    I agree it's fixable.

    I've said it before but give me the worst kick in our team for 30 minutes and I will improve his set shot kicking by 50%. It's not that complicated. Walk to the top of the mark, take a deep breath and walk in straight, keep your head over the ball when it hits your foot. Don't stress, don't panic. Simple.

    Part time, semi professional players back in the '70s and '80s managed to kick the bloody thing straight so there is no reason why they can't now.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  8. #68
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post

    Part time, semi professional players back in the '70s and '80s managed to kick the bloody thing straight so there is no reason why they can't now.
    The game is unrecognisable to what it was in this era with regard to the amount of explosive running players do. It’s pretty easy to kick the ball straight when you don’t run, different story when you’re heavily fatigued.

    But I agree that there is some woeful techniques within our team.

  9. #69
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Good points.

    Comments on the forum suggest that both the field kicking and shots at goal were terrible in the first quarter of Sunday’s game. Personally I thought it was close to the worst I have seen.

    Missing goals from 35 metres must be fixable.

    The same goes for missing a teammate on their own 30 metres away when not under pressure.

    Between now and the start of the season there is plenty of time, If the problem is acknowledged and the desire to fix it is present.
    For what it’s worth I absolutely agree that something has to be done to address our goal kicking. If there’s a way to do it the field kicking as well

  10. #70
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    What are you trying to say about Coniglio - has he gotten better or worse?
    From a team perspective - worse.
    It may be at instruction from the coaching group but from the outside looking in that seems unlikely.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  11. #71
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    For what it’s worth I absolutely agree that something has to be done to address our goal kicking. If there’s a way to do it the field kicking as well
    There has to be a way - Dunkley and Naughton have improved their field kicking since entering our system.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  12. #72
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    Interesting theory on skill decline

    Nick Dal Santo says kids are having ‘a million touches less’ of the footy growing up

    AFL draftees having “a million touches less” of a footy as kids is contributing to a decline in the overall skill level of the competition, according to St Kilda and North Melbourne champion Nick Dal Santo.
    Fans and experts alike have been scathing of player skill level in 2019, with overall goalkicking accuracy continuing to decline this season. Notably, Melbourne great Garry Lyon declared the overall skill level is “deplorable”.

    Many theories have been floated as to why this is happening, given that with advancements in sports science players should only be getting better.

    While Dal Santo believes that many factors are to blame - such as increased defensive pressure - he told the Fox Footy Podcast his pet theory was that new AFL players just didn’t have enough experience with ball sports growing up.

    “When we were growing up, we didn’t have social media. We would’ve had computer games, but I know for me, all I did was be outside and play sport,” he said.

    “I loved basketball, I loved golf, I loved football clearly. I was happy to do anything that would get me out of class. I played at recess, I played at lunch time, I played with my mates post-school.

    “I don’t think kids are having this amount of time with a football in their hand. I don’t think they experience the amount of variety and playing with a ball, peripheral vision ... and then how that can translate onto a footy field and the beauty of that.

    “To put it really simply, kids by the age of 18 getting drafted could be a million touches less than what we were.

    “So I think once they get to AFL level, they’ve missed out on all that education. All that time of decision making, holding the football differently and still trying to kick a drop punt.”

    The Saints great admitted he had issues with players during his time in the AFL making skill errors, but he feels it has gotten worse in recent seasons.

    “I used to get frustrated. There’s a lot of things on the footy field I couldn’t do, but I used to rate my kicking. I used to have confidence that if I got the footy under pressure, I could pretty much kick it to a teammate,” he said.

    “So I used to get frustrated at other teammates, particularly when you had a free-flowing passage of play where you could see ‘well if I get to that position, the ball has to get to me’ and then you realise it doesn’t because there’s a poor skill error or a silly mistake or decision.

    “But even now sitting back and trying to remove myself from being that player ... I just think as a whole, the game’s been diluted as a beautiful product because the skill level generically has gone backwards - or hasn’t improved.”

    However Dal Santo also believes the increased defensive pressure being put on players is playing a role in the current issues.

    He pointed to Adam Treloar’s brilliant performance against lowly Gold Coast as an example of what players can do when not under quite as much pressure.

    Treloar had 35 disposals and 19 kicks against the Suns - the latter his second-most for the season. But he also had his second-best disposal and kicking efficiency for the year, at 91.4 per cent and 84.2 per cent respectively.

    “Adam Treloar on the weekend had one of his greatest games with disposal efficiency and kicking efficiency,” Dal Santo said.

    “Is it any coincidence that it was against the Gold Coast Suns, and the pressure wasn’t on him?

    “When players have got a little bit more time, they kick the footy a lot better. Adam Treloar in my opinion hasn’t been a great decision-maker/skill executer for most of this year but on the weekend when the pressure wasn’t there, he looks like a rock star.”

  13. #73
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    Re: Brisbane were ready for us.

    I pretty much always had a footy in my hands until my late teens. If I wasn't holding a footy then it meant that I had just kicked it to someone. I even slept with one until I was 14-15.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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