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  1. #1
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    What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Been a long and eventful year. And the year went only half as long as the last quarter of the game last weekend. And I should have left earlier before the stupid uber surge pricing tripled the price of my dash to the airport...something about staying to the end, supporting the team, having travelled a long way blah blah blah stopped me.

    The entire section I was in seemed unhappy all day with:

    1/. The umpires
    2/. The Giants

    What EXACTLY did they do wrong?

    The Giants were first in ALL DAY - and they got kicks because of that. They planned in front, they tackled HARD when they weren't...and sure, they layed on top of us after a tackle, bumped us/smashed into us off the ball...but that's all footy isn't it.

    I know, I know. The Greene 'incident'. The Himmelberg 'incident'. The Greene one in particular didn't look great in the moment and looks even worse in the replay...but to be fair I doubt the umpires saw any of that on the day. It was crap but that's a tribunal issue - on the day/in the moment, Bont played on and was equally ineffective BEFORE and AFTER 'that' happened. Basically, whatever it was that Greene did, he didn't stop Bont (or anyone else for that matter) winning the footy and 'fighting back'. If you want to make excuses for Lipinski and Smith, fine. But to say we need Liba in order to 'fight the fight'...well, that's crap. Bont and Dunks are both high draft picks and premiership players - they have been playing footy since they were 5 and 100% know that if you get pushed, you had better well push back or pretty soon you will be laying flat on your back!

    As the week goes on, I have pretty much decided that not being involved in finals past week#1 is actually pretty crap. And it is triple-crap since the Giants were just harder at it and far more willing to fight for their season than we were. And as fans, I think we have gotten carried away with the Giants/Greene 'hate' to the point where we have overlooked the fact that - with the exception of the Greene/Bont 'stuff', the Giants players/team did what we wish our players/team had...they were ready and they had a plan. We weren't ready, we had no plan and no response.

    I know, I know. 2019 version won just 12 games, 2016 version won only 12. We were 'never' going to win it and 'what a great response to a poor start to the year after the bye'....But even back in 2015 we went out fighting - Walker was just too good for us in the last q that night at the MCG and that's that - we were in the game until the (very) bitter end. This year? Didn't fire a shot - and to be -40 in contested ball in an elimination game is an absolute embarrassment.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  3. #2
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    I don't think anyone can say we weren't outplayed. They smashed our midfield and we couldn't get our running game going. They beat us at our own game where we are kings in getting the ball into the Fwd50.

    What we are annoyed about is that grub Greene is seen lying on top of the Bont and is mauling him like an animal, gouging (yeah no vision of it, but circumstantial evidence, absolutely clear - comes off after that incident and Doctor attending him), pulling his hair slamming his head into the ground, and on top of that Himmledick comes in and punches the Bont while grub is getting stuck in, and he is not cited. Result, a fine. That is what we are annoyed about, GWS getting away with it. Not just this time, many many times in the past.

    Just sick and tired of the AFL and it's inconsistencies and treatment of certain clubs.

    THIS IS WHAT WE ARE ANNOYED ABOUT

    Last edited by bornadog; 10-09-2019 at 03:32 PM.
    FFC: Established 1883

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  4. #3
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    For me, being disappointed about being beaten (and the way in which we were soundly beaten) isn't mutually exclusive to being angry about how the umpiring went during the game and the AFEL has handled matters at the tribunal after the fact.

    Comparatively, we were slow, we were weak, we didn't have a skerrick of the intent that GWS have. As to what you chalk it all up to (motivation, basking in our own glory for the end of the season, inexperienced personnel, strategy, coaching, the list goes on) - I don't have the footy nous to pick that apart. But we looked like a deer caught in the headlights most of the game and it was really, really sad to see.

    But we could just have easily been beaten in a hard, physical contest without all the other sauce the GWS added. I don't think for a second that their rubbish was a defining factor (they would have beaten us regardless), but the fact that the umpires didn't step in and squash it just after it began is crap. And the fact that we more or less took it was crap. And the fact that Tiprat Greene has 17 priors and all he got with a fine is extraordinarily crap.
    Wake me up when we get to heaven, let me sleep if we're going to hell

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    And we all found heaven - 2016 Premiers!

  5. #4
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Well said MJP. We copped a valuable football lesson in all key facets of the game - intent in at the coalface, gut running on the outside, ball movement from D50 to F50, stoppage structure.

    It wasn't just CP's that we were mauled in (our worst result ever under Bevo by the way). It was out on the spread which goes to a lack of effort to gut-run both ways. It was in clearances., normally a strangth of ours. It was in I50's the worst differential in finals for years - no wonder our forwards were ineffectual with such a lack of quality supply.

    I see the game as a valuable lesson in never taking our eye off the prize again. Finals are difficult to make and even more difficult to win. We need to be ready for everything the opposition dish up and we weren't anywhere near that mark on Saturday. Players and coaches can and should learn plenty from the debacle - if it means we get better and continue improving in 2020 and beyond, it will ultimately be a positive.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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  7. #5
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Great post I agree in the most part. I did wonder myself when emotion took over am I more peeved about the tactics employed by the Giants (push the line, sometimes cross it but it's a knock out final so good idea) or our lack of response. As the games drawn further away it's starting to feel like the latter. (qualified with Greene/Bont stuff being abhorrent obviously).
    PS you have to stay till the end

  8. #6
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daughter of the West View Post
    ...how the umpiring went during the game and the AFEL has handled matters at the tribunal after the fact...
    ...but the fact that the umpires didn't step in and squash it just after it began is crap. And the fact that we more or less took it was crap. And the fact that Tiprat Greene has 17 priors and all he got with a fine is extraordinarily crap.
    I was there.
    I thought the umpiring was fine.
    I watched the replay.
    I thought the umpiring was fine.

    There is no rule that says you have to quickly 'get up off your opponent' after you tackle them. It is generally considered good sportsmanship, but it isn't a rule. The umpires will say 'let him up' and 'get off him' and what not, but what defines what is allowed and what isn't is pretty grey.

    Nothing that happens at the tribunal will ever surprise me (and I am always surprised when people are surprised) but I will give you that one - be upset about the Greene incident and the Himmelberg incident. But given we were nearly -100 for possession yet +6 for free kicks...the umpires gave us a pretty fair go of things.

    I guess I am just wondering why all of the commentary seems to be about stuff other than 'US' - we 100% controlled the outcomes on the weekend and started the game as if we didn't have a care in the world and were unable to respond when it was very quickly obvious that GWS had brought a very different attitude to the game than the one they rolled up with a few weeks prior.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  10. #7
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    In the wash up I don't especially care how many games Green did or didn't get. It's not like it's going to be of any advantage to us unless the AFL fixture us to play them in the first few rounds next year.

    And if we did then the boys should be looking forward to making it right with or without the tip rat.
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  11. #8
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I was there.
    I thought the umpiring was fine.
    I watched the replay.
    I thought the umpiring was fine.

    There is no rule that says you have to quickly 'get up off your opponent' after you tackle them. It is generally considered good sportsmanship, but it isn't a rule. The umpires will say 'let him up' and 'get off him' and what not, but what defines what is allowed and what isn't is pretty grey.

    Nothing that happens at the tribunal will ever surprise me (and I am always surprised when people are surprised) but I will give you that one - be upset about the Greene incident and the Himmelberg incident. But given we were nearly -100 for possession yet +6 for free kicks...the umpires gave us a pretty fair go of things.

    I guess I am just wondering why all of the commentary seems to be about stuff other than 'US' - we 100% controlled the outcomes on the weekend and started the game as if we didn't have a care in the world and were unable to respond when it was very quickly obvious that GWS had brought a very different attitude to the game than the one they rolled up with a few weeks prior.
    As I said, I don't have to the footy nous to pull apart what happened. I would love to offer a depth of analysis as to what went wrong at the weekend, but that's beyond my capabilities. And why I defer like people to your good self. And, as I said, the if GWS hadn't added the sauce, they would have still smacked us back to Melbourne anyway.

    But I do know, that when I'm asking my 3.5 year old in a few years time what sports he wants to play, I'm going to fight tooth and nail to not let him anywhere near the sport that openly condones eye gouging.
    Wake me up when we get to heaven, let me sleep if we're going to hell

    Good luck, for your sake I hope heaven and hell are really there, but I wouldn't hold my breath

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  12. #9
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    It seemed our plan was to play as we had over the last few weeks when were able to win the ball around the clearance situation with our 'big 3' steering the ship, transfer it to the outside with quick hands and then hit up any number of forward options we had... but that failed, and it failed quickly and then with the team we had selected (either by choice or in who we had available) we had few other options and we got comprehensively out-pointed.

    Bevo seemed totally miffed about what had happened post-game, but it was clear the Giants were going to be a completely different team with the addition of the likes of Cameron, Finlayson, Mumford & Hopper and a run in the legs of Kelly & de Boer than when we played them in rd22.. Leon Cameron potentially fighting for his coaching career, Gerard Whateley mentioning that GWS will 'bring steel chairs to the contest'... we all knew GWS were going to play for keeps... we just missed the memo.

    Hopefully its the reality check we need as we have lots of players who need to improve (fast) and some gaps to fill... young & talented gets you knowhere unless you do the work, so hopefully the fire burns in the stomach after an embarrassing performance and the boys can't wait for the pre-season to begin so they can get to work.

    And yep GWS over-stepped the mark with a handful of incidents, but you can either get on with the job or return fire... and we didn't do much at all.

  13. #10
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I guess I am just wondering why all of the commentary seems to be about stuff other than 'US'
    Because we all know we were comprehensively beaten and there is no point dissecting that performance as there is no game next week. The only thing left to talk about is the tribunal in regards to this game.

    I think most of the focus is now on possible trades and who will be traded out, followed by drafting players.

    PS: On umpiring, they should have taken more control and just awarded a few 50 metre penalties and then all the illegal stuff would have been killed off. Overall, no effect on the game.
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  14. #11
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    I don’t think that your original post is completely fair mjp. I believe most of us can have separate views and emotions about two concepts concerning the game:

    1. We were outplayed, outmuscled, didn’t seem to have a lot of tactical options up our sleeves. Our youth and inexperience showed. Our more senior players didn’t take the game by the scruff of the neck. In all measures we were comprehensively beaten by a team that have been top four or thereabouts and with a completely different age and development profile than ours. On that score I feel disappointed and frustrated, but hopeful that there is much improvement to work towards given how very young we are.

    2. GWS tactics went well beyond just aggressive, hard but fair play. It’s not brave but cowardly to pin a bloke to the ground and claw his face. It’s not brave to throw a gut punch outside of the field of play. The umpires ignored these tactics, the AFL effectively condoned them. I feel vastly different about this aspect of the game. It was disgraceful. It wasn’t why we lost. But it tarnishes their victory and the game as a whole.
    Last edited by The bulldog tragician; 10-09-2019 at 08:43 PM.
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  15. #12
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    The only thing that I am upset with is that we all knew they would come out hard but didn't appear to be either aware that they would or prepared to push back when they did.

    Games against North, Saints and then GWS showed that for some reason we aren't always good at handling an opposition with a point to prove particularly early in games

    Overall I think we should learn a lot from the experience
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  17. #13
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    I'm annoyed with our effort, no need to go much deeper than that

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  19. #14
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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    Quote Originally Posted by The bulldog tragician View Post
    I don’t think that your original post is completely fair mjp. I believe most of us can have separate views and emotions about two concepts concerning the game:

    1. We were outplayed, outmuscled, didn’t seem to have a lot of tactical options up our sleeves. Our youth and inexperience showed. Our more senior players didn’t take the game by the scruff of the neck. In all measures we were comprehensively beaten by a team that have been top four or thereabouts and with a completely different age and development profile than ours. On that score I feel disappointed and frustrated, but hopeful that there is uncharted to work with.

    2. GWS tactics went well beyond just aggressive, hard but fair play. It’s not brave but cowardly to pin a bloke to the ground and claw his face. It’s not brave to throw a gut punch outside of the field of play. The umpires ignored these tactics, the AFL effectively condoned them. I feel vastly different about this aspect of the game. It was disgraceful. It wasn’t why we lost. But it tarnishes their victory and the game as a whole.
    Effectively came to post the same in response to the OP. I am angry about those incidents and the umpires affording them the opportunity to run with that behaviour.

    I feel like I can hold that as a key part of my experience watching the game AND feel dissapointed that we lost the game and the fight. Once it was clear what the umpires felt was OK, we needed to spill blood and didn't.

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    Re: What are we all annoyed with? The Giants, or...

    We brought a water pistol to a gun fight
    Next time we bring s bazooka

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