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  1. #1
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    Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    After watching the Port game (which I didn't mind btw) I have been thinking (too much) about our various coaches and the strategies they employ.

    For NFL-ites, I think Bevo is like Chuck Noll who used to coach the Steelers (4x super bowls). He assembled a good team - for sure. But every week they played 'straight up'. They did what they did - and you had to beat them. And for a while there, no-one could. But eventually...

    I guess if you wanted a more modern equivalent go with Andy Reid of the Eagles/Chiefs.

    Wallace on the other hand was more like a Belichick. Every opponent was a puzzle to be solved. Every week a tweak of this or that, a new tactic, a positional surprise...hence things like the Super Flood and basically every week during the fabulous '97 season when guys regularly played in different spots with different challenges.

    What's better? For the short term? For the long term? For good? For bad?

    Sometimes lately I watch us play and think "Did we really not know they were going to do 'THAT'?"...I think if I put those feelings in amongst the overall Bevo-ness of the team structure - we play this way, each player clearly understands what they need to do and if we all come prepared, well...look out...then it all makes more sense. Not being inside the club (obviously) I don't know what is and isn't true and I'm sure we 'game plan' but I don't ever get the feeling that he presents the group with a 'on the fringes of crazy' plan to beat 'BRISBANE', sells them on it and they 'GO DO IT' the way that Wallace once seemed too...then again, flags = Bevo 1, Wallace 0.

    Am I getting this wrong? Does anyone notice much variance in our plans and tactics from week-to-week? Which game was Bevo's 'superflood'. And which is better?
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    I'd say with a high rotation of players in and out of the side, and with a "younger" team, a consistent game plan and style makes things easier to execute.
    The flip side is that sometimes we may be considered easy to play against - especially for a team like Richmond that is willing to concede messy clearances and control the ball as they play the game at their speed.

    Our willingness to use handballs to try and free a player up for a 'cleaner' kick is a hallmark of our game week in, week out.

    I do think Bevo seems a bit stubborn at times, but aren't all good coaches? A coach that wavers in their message would quickly lose the faith of the group.
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  4. #3
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    I'd say with a high rotation of players in and out of the side, and with a "younger" team, a consistent game plan and style makes things easier to execute.
    The flip side is that sometimes we may be considered easy to play against - especially for a team like Richmond that is willing to concede messy clearances and control the ball as they play the game at their speed.

    Our willingness to use handballs to try and free a player up for a 'cleaner' kick is a hallmark of our game week in, week out.

    I do think Bevo seems a bit stubborn at times, but aren't all good coaches? A coach that wavers in their message would quickly lose the faith of the group.
    Some Coaches are like this. Like ex-Socceroos coach Postecoglou. Has one style and that's it. Plan B is to do Plan A better is their matra.

    Having said that, given the AFL is a Draft system (unlike Soccer, where the big clubs buy the players that suit the Coach's style) you have to change your style to your list's strengths and weaknesses.

    Overall, you need both in the AFL I believe.

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  6. #4
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Given we've tread water since 2016, whatever Bevo and his coaching team are doing isn't working.
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  8. #5
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    It can sometimes be chicken or the egg/who blinks first. Do you back your style in to win and force your opponent to react or do you change your style to try quell the opposition? In NBA you see it all the time. There will be teams that employ small ball and others will try match that to not get beaten for speed. Others will go tall to take advantage of the opponents lack of size. It’s interesting. We saw it against port. They have an extra tall but we chose to keep our lineup smaller and try beat them in the middle. It didn’t work.

    I think you need to be a bit flexible and have an honest assessment of where the team sits relative to the competition. Typically the strongest teams with the best players can get away with playing their brand. They’re the hunted. Then there are the hunters who could cause some upsets by playing to the opponents weaknesses.

    All in all you need a bit of both. You certainly need an identity/way to play. Having a young/inexperienced team can mean its best to stick to a brand to develop familiarity. But these teams are usually near the bottom of the ladder. Once you establish a way to play I think it’s not too much to ask to tweak some things that are obvious (like tag a damaging player or implement and extra tall) when you’re up and coming. Then when you are the head of the pack, go back to playing your style and force opponents to beat you. Again the latter is usually only the case when you have the best players ie Dusty/Bont/Buddy/Kennedy or an incredibly well drilled TEAM.

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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    By the way I notice ZERO variance in our game plan. Zero. I’d like to see us adjust even if it’s just minor (though I’d like to see a new game plan in general but that’ll take time).

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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    By the way I notice ZERO variance in our game plan. Zero. I’d like to see us adjust even if it’s just minor (though I’d like to see a new game plan in general but that’ll take time).
    SO - would you agree that Wallace was a coach who regularly 'changed gears' to combat an opponent vs Bevo who seems more focussed on just playing 'our best footy' at all times...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  12. #8
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    SO - would you agree that Wallace was a coach who regularly 'changed gears' to combat an opponent vs Bevo who seems more focussed on just playing 'our best footy' at all times...
    I'll be honest I wasn't old enough during the Wallace years to appreciate or understand the nuances of game plans and coaching. I remember the flooding against essendon but that's about it as far as me being aware of strategies is concerned.

    Regarding Bevo, it's an interesting one. I can remember in his first season we were all loving the change he brought. He was a breath of fresh air. He was viewed as the ultimate tactician or strategist. As opposed to the McCartney days of slow, boring, contested-only football, we were playing fast, exciting and high scoring footy. I remember reading articles mentioning that Bevo was playing to our players' strengths rather than trying to turn them all into contested animals like McCartney wanted. 2015, like 2016, was a great year. But fast forward to 2020 and the feeling is more in line with the McCartney days rather than 2015/16. Or maybe it's just me. But Bevo is deemed too one dimensional. Too stubborn to change his ways. Perhaps he isn't the ultimate strategist we all thought he was. Was 2015/16 just the difference between McCartney's way and Bevos way rather than Bevo being a genius? I mean apart from our backline, the rest of the field almost (I did say almost) resembles the McCartney era of bogging the game down with a non-functioning forward line. We see the same old plan week in week out with not much flexibility. And then there's the fact that we seem to recruit the same type of players to play this one style. I don't know. Perhaps there's more going on that I can't see but we don't seem to make too many adjustments week to week or even year to year. I refuse to turn my back on Bevo but how many more years of this can we endure? I'm all for patience but i think we'd all agree that if we changed things up a bit we'd have more patience. Seeing the same coaches and game style with little improvement over the years is becoming frustrating.

  13. #9
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    SO - would you agree that Wallace was a coach who regularly 'changed gears' to combat an opponent vs Bevo who seems more focussed on just playing 'our best footy' at all times...
    Absolutely. Plough was a reflexive beast able to adapt to any environment quickly. I'm not saying he wasn't a detailed planner but Bevo just seems to put all his energy in terms of opposition analysis into the lead up to the game, and then he backs himself and his players to get that done on the day.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  14. #10
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    SO - would you agree that Wallace was a coach who regularly 'changed gears' to combat an opponent vs Bevo who seems more focussed on just playing 'our best footy' at all times...
    They are very different in the lead up to games too.

    Bevo is very straight down the line - he tends to do what he says during the week. No ducks and drakes.

    Wallace was the opposite. Remember the week before the uber-flood in that Essendon game? It was all about making the game a "high scoring shootout".


    It's very easy to dismiss their similarities though as they are less obvious. The biggest one for me is the will to drive cultural change. 1996 when Wallace took over, the "I'll spew up" speech was very important for us. It changed the "good effort" mantra of the club, he wanted us to strive to win at all costs. It marked a shift in internal and external perception.

    Bevo knew that in 2016 we weren't just climbing a mountain, we were scaling Everest naked. "Why not us" seemed to tap into a dismissal of past perception as well, shaking off the burden of what we were expected to do. Remember we were absolute rank outsiders to win an elimination final in Perth which no Vic club had done for years IIRC. In past years, just winning that would have been enough - but for the 2016 group, it wasn't.
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Can we combine the two?

    Honestly, Wallace was a terrific coach who went wayward late but he had a great mind for tactical coaching. It'll never happen but I wouldn't be against somebody like him supporting Bevo.

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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    Can we combine the two?

    Honestly, Wallace was a terrific coach who went wayward late but he had a great mind for tactical coaching. It'll never happen but I wouldn't be against somebody like him supporting Bevo.
    Would he listen? That's not a slight on Bevo, but perhaps the consistency of his messaging is seen internally as a strength?
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    Would he listen? That's not a slight on Bevo, but perhaps the consistency of his messaging is seen internally as a strength?
    That's the concern - that Bevo really only surrounds himself with like minded individuals, or 'yes men'. I do find it interesting what happened with Monty, who is now back at Port.

    I said it once before, but Bevo's stubbornness is a huge contributing factor to the 2016 Premiership..... and it's likely to be a contributing factor to his demise as a coach too.

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  19. #14
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    That's the concern - that Bevo really only surrounds himself with like minded individuals, or 'yes men'. I do find it interesting what happened with Monty, who is now back at Port.

    I said it once before, but Bevo's stubbornness is a huge contributing factor to the 2016 Premiership..... and it's likely to be a contributing factor to his demise as a coach too.
    Stubbornness... or loyalty?
    We're also slow to move on players from our list who are marginal at best (e.g. Prudden, who is a fantastic individual and great for our VFL side but was way too slow to play the roles we asked him to)
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  21. #15
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    Re: Wallace vs Bevo: Play to WIN vs Play to "Play Good Footy"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    That's the concern - that Bevo really only surrounds himself with like minded individuals, or 'yes men'. I do find it interesting what happened with Monty, who is now back at Port.

    I said it once before, but Bevo's stubbornness is a huge contributing factor to the 2016 Premiership..... and it's likely to be a contributing factor to his demise as a coach too.
    I know people keep saying this, but how do we know? Who has confirmed this?
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