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  1. #31
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Putting aside emotional attachments to our original name, would we have been given the opportunity to develop Ballarat as an expanded supporter base, or given NGA access to the greater western Victorian region (which is going to snare us a potential generational talent) if we hadn't transformed our brand to be more inclusive of the Western region in general?
    To be honest, I’d go back to “Footscray” in a second if it were up to me, but you make some really good points, here.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    I'm happy with the status quo. Western Bulldogs for the national competition, Footscray for the VFL team, Western Bulldogs fpr the AFLW and the VFLW.

    I am especially happy that those teams have given us 4 premiership cups to put in the trophy cabinet since 2014. Find me a club that has that many cups in the last 5 years and I will gladly revert to the old name.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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  5. #33
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    As a new migrant to this country and only knowing our team by the Western Bulldogs. My kids are born here and growing up with the Western Bulldogs name. I would prefer us not to change the name back.

    I joined as a member and over time got to know about our history as Footscray but not having an emotional connection with the name.

    Asking me to adapt to the change back to Footscray; would be asking me to go through the change you guys experienced when we changed from Footscray to Western Bulldogs. ( I would imagine it was painful and most of you'd be reluctantly accepting it)

    There are other immigrants currently living in this country, in the western region which we are trying to attract (Braybrook, Sunshine, St. Albans, Werribee, Melton ...) and are only knowing the team as Western Bulldogs. Would we lose the appeal to most of them if we are trading back as Footscray?
    Last edited by choconmientay; 29-10-2019 at 05:36 PM.
    It always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela

  6. #34
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by choconmientay View Post
    As a new migrant to this country and only knowing our team by the Western Bulldogs. My kids are born here and growing up with the Western Bulldogs name. I would prefer us not to change the name back.

    I joined as a member and over time got to know about our history as Footscray but not having an emotional connection with the name.

    Asking me to adapt to the change back to Footscray; would be asking me to go through the change you guys experienced when we changed from Footscray to Western Bulldogs. ( I would imagine it was painful and most of you'd be reluctantly accepting it)

    There are other immigrants currently living in this country, in the western region which we are trying to attract (Braybrook, Sunshine, St. Albans, Werribee, Melton ...) and are only knowing the team as Western Bulldogs. Would we lose the appeal to most of them if we are trading back as Footscray?
    I love the appeal of club to migrants. I taught ESL to migrants and love how footy is a conduit to being an Australian, part of the fabric. My father in law was from Greece, lived in Carlton and loves the Blues although he was a soccer player in Greece. How good is ethnicity in footy, Lin Jong, Bamblett, Buhagiar, Del Ray, Brereton, Bontempelli, Aliir etc?
    Yes if we changed back to Footscray, the followers of the last couple of decades would feel the shifting sands of identity like migrants feel, like we elders did when Footscray was taken from us and Western became a fait accompli.
    Most important to attract the migrants including the Sudanese who need us as much as we need them. After all Footscray was the home of the Medway hostel and migrants lived there and went to school with me in the 50's and beyond. Now many migrants make Footscray great, coolest suburb in the world, Werribee, Melton etc as you say are part of the Western Bulldogs and make the club greater.

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  8. #35
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by choconmientay View Post
    As a new migrant to this country and only knowing our team by the Western Bulldogs. My kids are born here and growing up with the Western Bulldogs name. I would prefer us not to change the name back.

    I joined as a member and over time got to know about our history as Footscray but not having an emotional connection with the name.

    Asking me to adapt to the change back to Footscray; would be asking me to go through the change you guys experienced when we changed from Footscray to Western Bulldogs. ( I would imagine it was painful and most of you'd be reluctantly accepting it)

    There are other immigrants currently living in this country, in the western region which we are trying to attract (Braybrook, Sunshine, St. Albans, Werribee, Melton ...) and are only knowing the team as Western Bulldogs. Would we lose the appeal to most of them if we are trading back as Footscray?
    Can absolutely appreciate and accept your feelings on a change. However, we were never asked. It was just ripped from us as part of a package deal from Smorgo's ticket. Never really evaluated or scrutinised. Just forced on us and affirmed by a constant doomsday narrative (we were in strife, to be fair) for most of his reign.

    We already were the Club of the west and deep roots in all the suburbs you mentioned. Assuming we did everything else the same since 97, I'd think that would have held true. Ballarat etc, maybe not. It's all crystal ball type stuff at this point.

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  10. #36
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Irrespective of how the Western Bulldogs moniker was thrust upon us it is so important to retain that name now. I loved the team of Footscray more than anyone but let's not go backwards. It might be a drastic mistake.

  11. #37
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    Irrespective of how the Western Bulldogs moniker was thrust upon us it is so important to retain that name now. I loved the team of Footscray more than anyone but let's not go backwards. It might be a drastic mistake.
    I actually think how it was thrust upon us and the reasons behind it as important aspects to the discussion and I really don't think we can revert back to the Footscray name because we one a flag as the Western Bulldogs

    From memory one of the first decisions we had to consider was a choice between the red, white and blue jumper or the Footscray name. It was a gross manipulation of the selection process that never sat well with me but I did support the name change rather than lose our traditional jumper as was proposed. Later the jumper was butchered but that's another story

    Would a change back really impact the club? Perhaps but I don't think it would jeopardise the club
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  13. #38
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by choconmientay View Post
    As a new migrant to this country and only knowing our team by the Western Bulldogs. My kids are born here and growing up with the Western Bulldogs name. I would prefer us not to change the name back.

    I joined as a member and over time got to know about our history as Footscray but not having an emotional connection with the name.

    Asking me to adapt to the change back to Footscray; would be asking me to go through the change you guys experienced when we changed from Footscray to Western Bulldogs. ( I would imagine it was painful and most of you'd be reluctantly accepting it)

    There are other immigrants currently living in this country, in the western region which we are trying to attract (Braybrook, Sunshine, St. Albans, Werribee, Melton ...) and are only knowing the team as Western Bulldogs. Would we lose the appeal to most of them if we are trading back as Footscray?

    Great post Choc. As for the name change, well at the time it was far from certain that the club would survive so any tinkering around the edges was OK with me. Besides this Western Bulldogs entity is much more successful than Footscray!
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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  15. #39
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I actually think how it was thrust upon us and the reasons behind it as important aspects to the discussion and I really don't think we can revert back to the Footscray name because we one a flag as the Western Bulldogs

    From memory one of the first decisions we had to consider was a choice between the red, white and blue jumper or the Footscray name. It was a gross manipulation of the selection process that never sat well with me but I did support the name change rather than lose our traditional jumper as was proposed. Later the jumper was butchered but that's another story

    Would a change back really impact the club? Perhaps but I don't think it would jeopardise the club
    We will never know exactly unless the name is changed back. Otherwise it is only our opinions.

  16. #40
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    Irrespective of how the Western Bulldogs moniker was thrust upon us it is so important to retain that name now. I loved the team of Footscray more than anyone but let's not go backwards. It might be a drastic mistake.
    Yep. The Smorgo ticket made a decision and and we've stuck with it. It was a decisive move.

    Then take the 'shin boners'. They tried to copy cat what we did. They were North Melbourne Kangaroos. Then they decided to be known just as 'the kangaroos' hoping to widen their appeal. That didn't work out, so then they went back. Then they pushed 'shin boners' harder. Now they want to be simply 'North', despite being the southern Tasmania side. Their flip flopping chasing focus group feedback is amatuer hour and is a poor (true) reflection of their branding ability.

    I don't want to be like North changing the focus names or even seriously debating it at club level. North are chasing and changing things over several years which to me is desperate. We made a decisive call 22 years ago. To change it they'd need to hold focus groups to understand how members would react. As Danny said on the 2016 Prelim Banner, we are not a club of focus groups. We are who we are. We survived linger threats of merging through the 90's, we grew our membership base, got in good sponsors and eventually won a flag. Our history doesn't change either.

    I don't see any good reason/s for reverting the name back. There's a risk of losing some members, and do we think the 'Footscray Forever' group will suddenly all become active members to cover the shortfall? (No) Would Mercedes (& others) re-think their sponsorship of Footscray, or could it remotely risk it? (Yes) Will the name change make us significantly more money? (No) Would it make us more attractive and more inclusive? (No) - So why do it? So some the older members (35+ year olds) get to live in the romance of the past with a different region name before the word 'Bulldogs'. We need to make financial, commercial and branding decisions on what's best for the club, the membership numbers and the bottom line. Reverting the name doesn't do nothing for the KPIs just mentioned.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  18. #41
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Seeing as part of the name change came from a marketting move that presumed a cringe factor in Footscrays image, can I just say that the non building of the east west link also involves such a factor?
    Daniel Andrews has done some of the best infrastructure work for Melbourne ever but I cursed when he used opposition to the East West link as part of his party's platform.
    Now he claims he cannot accept the billions offered by the federal government because the electorate has voted on the issue: basically saying Victoria has turned it's back on the west and don't want the EastWest link.
    I am calling bullshit on the party I have supported all my life.
    Dan this is a continuation of prejudice against the west to the point of failure to address Melbourne's greatest needs. Logistically, logically and for mercy's sake Melbourne needs the link built.

  19. #42
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by BornInDroopSt'54 View Post
    Seeing as part of the name change came from a marketting move that presumed a cringe factor in Footscrays image, can I just say that the non building of the east west link also involves such a factor?
    Daniel Andrews has done some of the best infrastructure work for Melbourne ever but I cursed when he used opposition to the East West link as part of his party's platform.
    Now he claims he cannot accept the billions offered by the federal government because the electorate has voted on the issue: basically saying Victoria has turned it's back on the west and don't want the EastWest link.
    I am calling bullshit on the party I have supported all my life.
    Dan this is a continuation of prejudice against the west to the point of failure to address Melbourne's greatest needs. Logistically, logically and for mercy's sake Melbourne needs the link built.
    Getting a bit political there
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  21. #43
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofScray View Post
    Can absolutely appreciate and accept your feelings on a change. However, we were never asked. It was just ripped from us as part of a package deal from Smorgo's ticket. Never really evaluated or scrutinised. Just forced on us and affirmed by a constant doomsday narrative (we were in strife, to be fair) for most of his reign.

    We already were the Club of the west and deep roots in all the suburbs you mentioned. Assuming we did everything else the same since 97, I'd think that would have held true. Ballarat etc, maybe not. It's all crystal ball type stuff at this point.
    In the western suburbs, I believe the demographic has changed immensely in the past decade with migrants from India and Africa now dominating these suburbs and the club needs to look for customized programs to attract these groups. We don't need to have a lot of focus on maintaining of what we already have but should spend more energy on onboarding new members from those diverse backgrounds
    Last edited by choconmientay; 31-10-2019 at 01:23 PM.
    It always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela

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  23. #44
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by BornInDroopSt'54 View Post
    I love the appeal of club to migrants. I taught ESL to migrants and love how footy is a conduit to being an Australian, part of the fabric.
    You should work with the club to get either Western Bulldogs giveaway merchandise or the 3 games "give-away-memberships" to introduce them to our game. In the next few years, we'd have a lot of pulling power to convert them to join and love our club.
    It always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela

  24. #45
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    Re: Footscray? Yeah but no but yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Yep. The Smorgo ticket made a decision and and we've stuck with it. It was a decisive move.

    Then take the 'shin boners'. They tried to copy cat what we did. They were North Melbourne Kangaroos. Then they decided to be known just as 'the kangaroos' hoping to widen their appeal. That didn't work out, so then they went back. Then they pushed 'shin boners' harder. Now they want to be simply 'North', despite being the southern Tasmania side. Their flip flopping chasing focus group feedback is amatuer hour and is a poor (true) reflection of their branding ability.

    I don't want to be like North changing the focus names or even seriously debating it at club level. North are chasing and changing things over several years which to me is desperate. We made a decisive call 22 years ago. To change it they'd need to hold focus groups to understand how members would react. As Danny said on the 2016 Prelim Banner, we are not a club of focus groups. We are who we are. We survived linger threats of merging through the 90's, we grew our membership base, got in good sponsors and eventually won a flag. Our history doesn't change either.

    I don't see any good reason/s for reverting the name back. There's a risk of losing some members, and do we think the 'Footscray Forever' group will suddenly all become active members to cover the shortfall? (No) Would Mercedes (& others) re-think their sponsorship of Footscray, or could it remotely risk it? (Yes) Will the name change make us significantly more money? (No) Would it make us more attractive and more inclusive? (No) - So why do it? So some the older members (35+ year olds) get to live in the romance of the past with a different region name before the word 'Bulldogs'. We need to make financial, commercial and branding decisions on what's best for the club, the membership numbers and the bottom line. Reverting the name doesn't do nothing for the KPIs just mentioned.
    I love your post and the reasonings.
    It always seems impossible until it's done. Nelson Mandela

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