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Thread: Hawthorn

  1. #16
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    And the kiddy from Melbourne via GWS, number one draft pick but I just can't remember his name-his dad is in recruiting. Should have got a 50 metre penalty in the prelim when JJ ran into the protected zone but the umpire didn't feel like getting executed by overexcited bulldog supporters so he didn't blow his whistle.


    Would you have done the Patton deal if you were Hawthorn.
    Whoever he is, he couldn’t have been worth more compensation than Cal Ward, their captain and best player during their first years...

  2. #17
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by AshMac View Post
    Whoever he is, he couldn’t have been worth more compensation than Cal Ward, their captain and best player during their first years...
    Is it Colin Sylvia?
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

  3. #18
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Impey also didn't play well and there will be high expectations on Mitchell getting close to his brownlow medal form.
    Impey WAS playing well.

    But a torn ACL put paid to that! Not sure he will play in 2020.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  4. #19
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Alastair Clarkson has long been the trendsetting coach in AFL circles and the man in charge of the Hawks looks like he’s adding a giant change again in 2020 according to Essendon great Tim Watson.

    “I was told very early in the piece that Hawthorn were probably going to play a different brand of football this year, they had sped everything up,” Watson said on SEN Breakfast.

    “This was according to a track watcher — my track watcher. He goes out and watches the clubs for me and he came back and he came back to me and said Hawthorn is going to play fast in 2020. Alastair Clarkson has just turned this thing on its ear.”

    Hawthorn took on the Saints in the opening Marsh Community Series contest, going down by 21 points. But the stats prove Watson’s theory.

    “How they played against St Kilda, you’re absolutely on the money here,” Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne said.

    “We have to be a little bit cautious as it is one Marsh Series game, but there has been evidence over time that when a team significantly changes what they’re doing in the Marsh Series compared to the year before, that actually goes through to the actual season.

    “This was an extreme (change). If we had a look at what Hawthorn did against St Kilda on the weekend, they went through the corridor when exiting (defensive) 50, 46 per cent of the time compared to last year 16 per cent.

    “Their mark and play on rate was 41 per cent. Last year it was 31 per cent.

    “They’re extreme numbers from one sample. It will be really interesting to see what they do in their next Marsh Series game.

    “That is something to actually take notice of.”

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/af...1ccbe1890d4070

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  6. #20
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    Re: Hawthorn

    They don't quite have the same footskills of a few years ago to play 'keepings off' but do have genuinely big forwards to kick the ball to.
    It sounds like a simple case of 'playing to your strengths' which is far better than 'send years moulding a list to a preconceived game style that may no longer be relevant when that transition is complete'.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  7. #21
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    They don't quite have the same footskills of a few years ago to play 'keepings off' but do have genuinely big forwards to kick the ball to.
    It sounds like a simple case of 'playing to your strengths' which is far better than 'send years moulding a list to a preconceived game style that may no longer be relevant when that transition is complete'.
    I agree with this.

    There ball winners in Mitchell and Worpel are simply not precise users. With big guys forward they will need to be taking quite a few marks. I see Patton, Lewis and O'Brien as making them quite top heavy.

    They are likely to be conceding a few rebound scores.
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

  8. #22
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    I agree with this.

    There ball winners in Mitchell and Worpel are simply not precise users. With big guys forward they will need to be taking quite a few marks. I see Patton, Lewis and O'Brien as making them quite top heavy.

    They are likely to be conceding a few rebound scores.
    That could be the case. I expect Gunston will be important for them this year as when he plays as the 3rd or 4th forward he's a 50 goal per year guy.

    They will be pretty big in the back half too - McEvoy is a lock, Frawley still going and Frost is quick and is earmarked for a spot to allow Sicily (who can play taller than his height) free reign to rebound. I suspect Stratton plays lockdown on the most dangerous mid sizer.

    Somehow they've cobbled together an effective midfield group with Mitchell, Worpel and O'Meara leading an on-ball brigade, Smith and Henderson running the wings and Wingard s first rotation.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  9. #23
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Hawks must reinvent as key decisions loom

    All of a sudden, Hawthorn, the club that declared in 2017 they aimed to win two flags before 2022 and another seven by 2050, have plenty on their plate.

    They need to appoint a new football manager to replace Graham Wright and a new skipper to replace Ben Stratton, the Tasmanian deal has become a political football and the ambitious Dingley relocation needs a rethink.

    And then there is the question of the coach as he enters his 17th season in charge.

    Although four-time premiership coach Alastair Clarkson is locked in until the end of 2022, what decision is made on his future at the end of this year is uncertain, as potential successor Sam Mitchell heads out to Box Hill to coach his own team in his own way.

    That's not to mention the allegations levelled at Jonathon Patton as the Hawks finally start assembling a playing list geared towards a new era through the draft.

    After being the dominant team in the three-peat of 2013-15, when they produced 29 premiership players, 2020 brought an internal realisation that golden era had passed.

    Some of last year’s performances (the biggest losing margin after relocation was surprisingly just six goals) were due to the horror draw the Hawks were handed. They became unmoored from the rest of the competition in a hub in South Australia, having decided to stay there on the basis they would eventually play in Tasmania.

    With a 40-minute drive to training from their base in the Barossa and an hour's drive to games in Adelaide, they missed out on the shared experience – for better or worse – nine Victorian teams were having in sunny Queensland.

    Although Clarkson is a genius coach, spending 100 consecutive days in close proximity to him as the team struggles wasn’t ideal either, with the 52-year-old unable to decompress at his property on the peninsula as he likes to do in more normal times. They were a happy team at Hawthorn when the season finished.

    After 13 successful years with the Hawks, club sources said Wright had spent much of 2020 contemplating whether the time had arrived for him to move on from the environment he played such a part in shaping, with the club asking him to spend the Christmas break considering whether his decision was final.

    As Wright made his call, the Magpies began to enquire whether the club he played for could provide the fresh start he wanted. The planets aligned and he made the move.

    His departure meant that all of Clarkson’s key support people during his time at the club, bar a doctor and a physiotherapist, departed for elsewhere as Hawks’ football department personnel became the most sought-after applicants for a range of roles within the industry.

    Change has not been unusual over the past decade as the club has been continually forced to rebuild its football program as Damien Hardwick, Leon Cameron, Adam Simpson, Luke Beveridge, Chris Fagan and Brendon Bolton (now returned from Carlton) all swapped a Hawks polo for a senior coaching role at another club. Along the way Andrew Russell, David Rath, Mark Evans, Stuart Dew and an assortment of star players moved on. At the end of last season key off-field personnel Scott Burns and Adem Yze found joined other clubs while Damian Carroll went to the Magpies after being stood down.

    Football director Richie Vandenberg, CEO Justin Reeves and another board member will be on the panel to select Wright’s replacement with the key role being filled on an interim basis by the respected Rob McCartney, an old teaching friend of Clarkson who a club source said would be a popular appointment among the players if chosen.

    The field should be strong but all applicants will need to consider whether they are up for a decision on the coach, which sources say will not come to a head until the end of this year when the Hawks will begin to consider properly whether to extend Clarkson or look to make a fresh start beyond the pre-eminent coach of his generation.

    The veteran still has the fire in the belly and is making his presence felt on the track more than ever as he returns to hands-on coaching with staff sizes reduced.

    Although Mitchell is preparing to become a senior coach, either at Hawthorn or elsewhere, there is no way the club will enter into a public succession plan, aware that they haven't worked elsewhere and that the smaller football department would operate best with one person in the chair.

    That reality, as well as the financial drain of the pandemic, has the Hawks facing hard questions around the scope of their Dingley project, although their commitment to relocation from Waverley remains firm.

    With a project originally slated as being bigger than Ben Hur the Hawks’ subcommittee, led by director and project management expert Luke Stambolis, will move forward on the community and AFLW component while assessing what the reduced football department and administration need to operate successfully.

    The Hawks are also optimistic that the Tasmanian deal will roll on beyond 2022 despite the premier Peter Gutwein's stance this week that they won't be signing any deals until they have a clear commitment from the AFL on what direction the bid for a Tasmanian AFL team is heading.

    Hawthorn’s position has been consistent, saying they will continue to operate in Tasmania but respect the process in place, which lost some momentum when COVID-19 struck, that could lead to Tasmania fielding their own team.

    Of course, off-field decision-making has been a strength – they have moved quickly when required to fix bad decisions – which is why they have a large supporter base that trusts the hierarchy. Although club president Jeff Kennett’s forays into political commentary are not always popular internally, he has a strong command of the board and club governance.

    The Hawks are at a crossroad, having delayed mining the draft for talent for a couple of years longer than was wise once they dropped out in 2016 – expending capital on Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O’Meara and Chad Wingard – and they are no longer the destination club they once were.

    Their attempt to reignite the careers of injured or out-of-favour players from other clubs has failed overall, with the delicate investigation into Patton making supporters question that approach.

    The events of 2020 have made it clear where they sit, with the club having finished 15th for the first time since the year before Clarkson took over in 2005. Another reinvention is required at the Hawks.
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

  10. #24
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    Re: Hawthorn

    They've got some work to do and the optimism many in the media had about them 12 months ago has gone
    It will be interesting to see if Clarkson goes past this year with them
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

  11. #25
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    Re: Hawthorn

    I am hoping they have a long sustained position near the bottom of the ladder.
    Established 1877
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  13. #26
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    Re: Hawthorn

    I'm actually wondering whether we're seeing the birth of the modern day 1980s through 2000s Richmond, but with different demographics when it comes to the Hawks.

    You know, instead of being inner suburban working class types forming an army after substantial success and becoming feral when that success was taken away from them, you have entitled middle ring and outer suburban bogans doing the same but at a different time. Hawthorn nearly died a bit over two decades ago, and that was after sustained success where they were unstoppable but full of hubris.........what about their recent actions suggests to you they're not still full of hubris? Or that their fans aren't either?

    In addition to their current drop, the game has changed. COVID has unearthed the frailty of their revenue streams, they are definitely going to lose Tasmania within five years (maybe sooner) and they have a political shit storm between Kennett and Clarkson brewing that will only result in one or neither of the two standing. If they can't win a game amongst all of this their fans will desert them just like they did after 1991.

    It will only take a slight rise in form from Carlton or a further one from St Kilda/ Melbourne/ Bulldogs to put real pressure on the Hawks for exposure. Once they're down I can see them being down for a while, because with all the factors above and with their younger supporters having no idea what it's like NOT to have success they'll struggle to sell a vision or narrative.

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  15. #27
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    Re: Hawthorn

    I mean they didn't trade Wingard this most recent trade period. What about Wingard says rebuilding from 15th on the ladder when he can deliver a top end draft pick and a second rounder in a rebuild phase?

  16. #28
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I'm actually wondering whether we're seeing the birth of the modern day 1980s through 2000s Richmond, but with different demographics when it comes to the Hawks.

    You know, instead of being inner suburban working class types forming an army after substantial success and becoming feral when that success was taken away from them, you have entitled middle ring and outer suburban bogans doing the same but at a different time. Hawthorn nearly died a bit over two decades ago, and that was after sustained success where they were unstoppable but full of hubris.........what about their recent actions suggests to you they're not still full of hubris? Or that their fans aren't either?

    In addition to their current drop, the game has changed. COVID has unearthed the frailty of their revenue streams, they are definitely going to lose Tasmania within five years (maybe sooner) and they have a political shit storm between Kennett and Clarkson brewing that will only result in one or neither of the two standing. If they can't win a game amongst all of this their fans will desert them just like they did after 1991.

    It will only take a slight rise in form from Carlton or a further one from St Kilda/ Melbourne/ Bulldogs to put real pressure on the Hawks for exposure. Once they're down I can see them being down for a while, because with all the factors above and with their younger supporters having no idea what it's like NOT to have success they'll struggle to sell a vision or narrative.
    Really good assessment Jee. I'm really keen to see how the dynamic between Kennett and Clarkson plays out. Kennett isn't exactly a team player and has a pretty high opinion of himself, and Clarkson isn't keen on taking criticism from anyone. It might get interesting in the Chinese definition of the word.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

  17. #29
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Appears Scully lost the appetite to ride a rebuild.

    As an aside, the McEvoy appointment has strong Richie Vandenberg as skipper vibes.

    She's gonna be a long road back for the Hawkers and I can't wait to begin hearing about their president's opinions on it.
    BORDERLINE FLYING

  18. #30
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    Re: Hawthorn

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Science View Post

    She's gonna be a long road back for the Hawkers and I can't wait to begin hearing about their president's opinions on it.
    I don't ever want to hear anything from their president about anything, ever.
    "It's over. It's all over."

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