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  1. #31
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Do professional sporting clubs run engagement surveys like large organisations?

  2. #32
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    At the end of 2017, we made an example of Stringer and we then had a couple of players leave at the end of 2018 and after doing all that we made the finals in 2019.

    Dropping players for bad form or effort is easy and I'm not sure we were prepared to make the hard decisions for a couple of seasons
    Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

    The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

    Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

    Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

    I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  3. #33
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".
    OK you've got me. Was it Sun Tzu?
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  4. #34
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    OK you've got me. Was it Sun Tzu?
    I have no idea but a talent manager I know says it to me early every pre-season when talking about training standards and the fact that ultimately we are going to cut the squad anyway AND even more ultimately only 23 can play on a given day.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  5. #35
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I have no idea but a talent manager I know says it to me early every pre-season when talking about training standards and the fact that ultimately we are going to cut the squad anyway AND even more ultimately only 23 can play on a given day.
    It sounds like something from Art of War.

    I wonder who he would have barracked for?
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  6. #36
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

    The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

    Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

    Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

    I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.
    Who were the players for us that you noticed visibly looked unmotivated?

  7. #37
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Well, to quote someone famous who famously said something along the lines of "You have to lose a few soldiers".

    The challenge with making an example of someone like Jake is that you don't know whether the message sent by the club is the message received by the players/playing group. I mean, the club is sending a "We will support you, but there is a line that must not be crossed" type message (it hopes). But is that what the players "hear". Or do they hear "Yeah, do they might move you on but there are 17 other clubs and, well, I got a B-I-G pay rise".

    Player discipline is a tricky thing. The things that they care about the most - time off (aka less meetings) and cash - are pretty easily manipulated. But doing things like 5am beach sessions etc can cause the group to rupture if the same protagonists are causing the group to be penalised...and if players aren't all in, well...

    Then there is the CBA which limits a lot of player discipline to the whole match day selection thing you were referring too...

    I've been critical of the way things were managed in 2017, 2018 and 2019 - in 2019 the on field sulking of players who believed that they were being played out of position was galling to watch, not to mention the repeated failures of effort in games vs Carlton, North and GWS in particular - but it would have been bloody hard especially given the trust gained by many of those players during 2016 AND the 'loose' controls around them/trust afforded them throughout that successful season.
    There are always reasons not to do things (complex or otherwise) but at the end of the day some other players were being impacted by the unchecked actions of others and if the management team sticks to the principle of being fair and consistent with the standards applied then in a professional environment you will get better outcomes. To do nothing or to walk past it is a worse message for the perceptive people within the team.

    I don't think it's coincidental that once the distracted few at the club were moved on a far better version of the Western Bulldogs appeared in 2019. Perhaps there were a variety of reasons not to take action earlier but I wonder what the impact really was for not addressing things sooner.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  8. #38
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by AshMac View Post
    Who were the players for us that you noticed visibly looked unmotivated?
    I think I posted enough about this last year...I have resolved to take a more positive approach in season 2020 but you are welcome to search the game day threads for any of the matches I mentioned!
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  9. #39
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    The emotional breakthrough for supporters last year was defeating Geelong.

    That team seemed to be made by reassembling the group of players who defeated Geelong the previous year.

    I don’t accept the argument that the trajectory that had the wooden spoon in sight was simply due to players not being motivated.

    But now the club has rediscovered how to win I hope to see a lot of it in 2020.

  10. Likes GVGjr, Eastdog, Testekill liked this post
  11. #40
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    Re: Western Bulldogs are genuine premiership contenders in 2020

    I think it’s a matter of picking players who are driven to succeed and drive others.
    I see that in our picks the last two years if you read their Bio, Smith and Weightman are stand outs and even when we recruit players from other clubs they are driving to improve as a person and as a team.
    We had a few with talent but not in the right head space and the flag made the ego go over the top.
    I do believe we have a very team orientated list now, which I expect to improve and stay up for at least 5 years.
    Keeping in mind it only takes one bad apple though.
    Bring back the biff

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