WB Game Day V Collingwood R1 2020

[FrediKanoute]

2016 team contained Clay Smith, Picken, Matty Boyd, Morris, and also Libba when finals started. There is absolutely no fragility in that group, and their hardness and fierce desire to win every single contest has not been adequately replaced thus far.

Our balance is askew. We put little time and effort into negating opposition players, and rely on our midfield to give us first use. As your examples allude, when the midfield/ruck gets decimated, we look like the emperor with no clothes. Professional, hardened teams like GWS and Colingwood will demolish anybody that shows weakness at the contest. Our big 3 mids are simply too good to allow abominations like last night to happen often, but we still need to balance out the style of play with additional personnel who can lift us when we are not at our best. We do have a large number of players who go into their shell when confronted by rabid opposition - it doesn't matter how talented they are, they will continue to have no impact when it is really needed. A number of players are on notice in that regard.

As for our stoppage tactics and ruck set up, I actually felt sorry for English last night because he was so clinically, predictably and easily dismantled and torn apart, he had nowhere to hide because there was no proper support to back him up. The folly of the concept of 'putting games into him' was exposed with cold and ruthless efficiency last night (not for the first time), not just by Grundy but by an American project player built like a match stick. We simply need Sweet or Trengove in to balance the team structure and actually give English the chance to play to his strengths. How many times will it take to play English as virtual lone ruckman and get slaughtered before it adversely affects his own confidence long term? It goes without saying that it makes winning more difficult.

We need Trengove in the team full stop. The backline go dismantled again

[FrediKanoute]

I was working so didn't watch it live...and I have been at work since 4am so haven't been too keen on watching the replay this morning.

I don't know. If it is one of those effort based losses like the elimination final I am not sure I have too many nice things to say...I think the board went into meltdown when I suggested Macrae should be dropped at one point last year for having terrible body language and being a sook.

I'll watch it I guess but this group is really prone to putting forth crap effort and no matter what the coaches plan or do, if the effort isn't there it doesn't matter a cracker...Am I surprised we didn't bring effort? I guess I am...but if you remember I didn't really much like the way we blamed the Giants for being 'overly' physical in the final last year instead of taking the 'You had better not try that again' approach. And now - as repeat offenders - we are basically begging opposition clubs to bring the hammer every week.

(Not) looking forward to watching the game.

Save yourself. It was right up there with Round 1 1996

[Danjul]

Add in 2016 version of Liberatore and Cordy we were a tough hard team.

Didn’t Cordy play as a forward in our 2016 finals.

I thought his brilliant snap goals got us over the Giants.
I thought he kicked our first goal in the Grand Final. A high pressure shot from the boundary.

What have they done to him?

[FrediKanoute]

I get the calls for Gardner to be dropped but felt Cavarra did ok with very limited opportunities. Also, unlike his mores esteemed teammates at least most of Cavarra’s tackles stuck and I felt he had more tenacity too. Hope Bevo gives him another chance next week if indeed we play next week.

Bailey Dale should be in cross hairs and I though Dunkley and Lloyd were poor too.

Lloyd pulling out of the contest at the end ofthe second, when if he goes hard we possibly get another scoring opportunity for me is grounds enough to be dropped. It was as bad as Darling in the 2016 Elimination final.

[azabob]

Didn’t Cordy play as a forward in our 2016 finals.

I thought his brilliant snap goals got us over the Giants.
I thought he kicked our first goal in the Grand Final. A high pressure shot from the boundary.

What have they done to him?

Yes, he played as a defensive type forward.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Yes, he played as a defensive type forward.

Does anyone have any insight into why Cordy was seen fit to be used in that capacity on the biggest stage, and acquited himself well, but has not neen seen there ever since?

Was it situational, and circumstances have not presented again where it has been a viable option to consider?
Having seen his poor kicking of late, I'm loathe to consider it, but it does intrigue me as to how it was once an option we used and now its not.

[bornadog]

Does anyone have any insight into why Cordy was seen fit to be used in that capacity on the biggest stage, and acquitted himself well, but has not been seen there ever since?

Was it situational, and circumstances have not presented again where it has been a viable option to consider?
Having seen his poor kicking of late, I'm loathe to consider it, but it does intrigue me as to how it was once an option we used and now its not.

He played 11 games in total during 2016, so he was neither a backman or forward, also there was no room in the backline as we had Hamling and Roberts.

I don't believe he is a forward. We have tried him up forward a few times in the past couple of years and it hasn't worked.

[bornadog]

I get the calls for Gardner to be dropped but felt Cavarra did ok with very limited opportunities. Also, unlike his mores esteemed teammates at least most of Cavarra’s tackles stuck and I felt he had more tenacity too. Hope Bevo gives him another chance next week if indeed we play next week.

Bailey Dale should be in cross hairs and I though Dunkley and Lloyd were poor too.

I prefer to give Cavarra another go and drop Dale if it was out of those two

[GVGjr]

Does anyone have any insight into why Cordy was seen fit to be used in that capacity on the biggest stage, and acquited himself well, but has not neen seen there ever since?

Was it situational, and circumstances have not presented again where it has been a viable option to consider?
Having seen his poor kicking of late, I'm loathe to consider it, but it does intrigue me as to how it was once an option we used and now its not.

I think we liked the fact that he could potentially play both ends of the ground but with the Hamling departure and Roberts seen as just a very good back-up Cordy settled back in as a defender

[GVGjr]

What a shocking performance. At least 5 of those players out there last night wouldn't be in my AFL side. This game has managed to be the one that breaks my father after 60 years. He's cancelled his membership for the first time in his history of supporting the club. Who can blame him.

I think many of us here won't be able to fathom cancelling a membership and that's what Richmond supporters were known for
Hopefully between the game on Friday and Monday morning when he might contact the club to inform them he's had a rethink.
Short of something like a merger proposal with Essendon I couldn't ever cancel my membership

While it's easy to get frustrated and disappointed after a loss most of us have seen a lot worse than Friday nights effort and over a long, long time and cancelling a membership has never been considered. Suggest to him to have a rethink because it's just week one of what will be a strange season.

[Hotdog60]

Just was having a think about the selection table and because we are not behind closed doors.
Could it be possible that the selection was a gamble but may be their hands were tied due to availability.
Lippa was mention to miss a week with concussion and that's because it's a hot topic but could other players have niggles that they thought for round one wasn't worth the risk and so went with second or third choice players and with no VFL could only use training results for selection.
Not excusing the rubbish that was thrown out on Friday night but there could have been other controlling factors. I just can't believe some players getting a run before others.

[G-Mo77]

What a shocking performance. At least 5 of those players out there last night wouldn't be in my AFL side. This game has managed to be the one that breaks my father after 60 years. He's cancelled his membership for the first time in his history of supporting the club. Who can blame him.

When expectations are so high a let down like that hurts. I haven't bought into the hype, I still think we're a couple of years away from becoming a consistent quality side. Defensively we are weak all over the ground until that improves drastically we won't be troubling many of the elite teams in the comp.

[GVGjr]

Just was having a think about the selection table and because we are not behind closed doors.
Could it be possible that the selection was a gamble but may be their hands were tied due to availability.
Lippa was mention to miss a week with concussion and that's because it's a hot topic but could other players have niggles that they thought for round one wasn't worth the risk and so went with second or third choice players and with no VFL could only use training results for selection.
Not excusing the rubbish that was thrown out on Friday night but there could have been other controlling factors. I just can't believe some players getting a run before others.

Which selections do you think we gambled on Hotdog60?

We had some decent options on the bench and some that didn't make the bench
We have a deep playing list and our injury list isn't excessive so Lipinski's absence should be easily covered.

[Hotdog60]

Which selections do you think we gambled on Hotdog60?

We had some decent options on the bench and some that didn't make the bench
We have a deep playing list and our injury list isn't excessive so Lipinski's absence should be easily covered.

As others have already said the selection of Gardner when Young could have done the same job and may be a little better that would have given us an option of more speed could we have given Vandermeer or Lynch a go. Not saying they would be any better but I feel we were slow to get to the contest and effort plays a part. No VFL takes away those guys chances to show their wares. R.Smith didn't a run yet he does try his best.
On a side note after the first quarter I thought about swapping Gardner with Naughton to help out defense and to get him into the game.

[mjp]

I think all these comments about attitude are becoming a distraction.

7 easy scoring shots to 1 in the first quarter. 14 to 4 by half time. Suggests the problem was structural.

I'm pretty baffled by this comment.

I guess it is chicken and egg, but to me it is impossible to tell if the structure is/will work when the effort is so poor. There are a lot of comments on this thread about 'missed tackles' but they aren't being missed - they just aren't being laid at all. We had 7 players - including our #1 ruckman who was at one million clearances - who didn't lay a single tackle (the others in numerical order were Young, Wood, Cordy, Bailey Dale, Williams and JJ). No tackles for running players like JJ and Williams? That's almost impossible! No tackles for a player like Dale who must have it on the very tip top of his IDP?

It gets worse. There were another 8 freaking players who only had ONE. Now - I think Cavarra has been robbed since he is listed with one and I have him with two, but we were MINUS 70 for possession (get your head around that for a second) AND somehow still MINUS 8 for tackles. That should be completely impossible.

Basically, I don't think we have any idea about our game - either style or structure - based on Friday's game 'cos we simply didn't play football.