WB Game Day V St. Kilda R2 2020

[mjp]

Gowers, Lloyd, Dale and Gardner have to be non-negotiable outs. Just putrid.

That's fair, but are the players the problem or the fact that ALL of them are playing.

I admit to being happy that we picked forwards to play forward, but those 3 in particular are just going to be cutting each others grass all game - they are mid-sized, marking forwards. The best we have of that type (Dickson) didn't play.

I'm leaving the Gardiner one. I just don't think he is the problem and is such an easy target...he's played like 5 games and needs to be supported, not criticised. I would prefer Young (either version of Young tbh) but whatever.

[Danjul]

Because hes a ruckman, has he shown anything in the other positions?

English has never looked comfortable in the ruck. But he looks like a champion when he is not pretending to be a ruckman.

what a waste of talent playing him in an unnatural role. It throws the whole team out of balance.

Sorry to repeat myself, but facts are facts.

[Grantysghost]

I think we need to change tact and select our best team this week. Sounds like a strange approach sure, but it might be crazy enough to work.

Think I’ve got the perfect meme if that scenario eventuates ....

[whythelongface]

Because hes a ruckman, has he shown anything in the other positions?

But is he a ruckman? Sure that is where we have been playing him but he has other attributes that could be applied in other positions. Previously when he has gone forward he has provided a target and can take a good mark. Whether he can sustain it for a whole game is the unknown. Might as well try something and bring Sweet in.

[SonofScray]

Bruce is no good. Shache a far better option.

[josie]

I thought Bruce’s efforts in ruck and around ground were ok.

[GVGjr]

I thought Bruce’s efforts in ruck and around ground were ok.

He got just one hit out Josie. He's not much of a support ruck man and Saints fans will confirm that

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That's fair, but are the players the problem or the fact that ALL of them are playing.

I admit to being happy that we picked forwards to play forward, but those 3 in particular are just going to be cutting each others grass all game - they are mid-sized, marking forwards. The best we have of that type (Dickson) didn't play.

I'm leaving the Gardiner one. I just don't think he is the problem and is such an easy target...he's played like 5 games and needs to be supported, not criticised. I would prefer Young (either version of Young tbh) but whatever.

I think the fact all were selected (the forwards not Gardner) points to problems at Match Committee level. That they did not seem to think there was a sameness with similar weaknesses says a lot.

I think Bevo is a good coach, in the modern incarnation of one. I wonder however in light of his premiership, whether maybe his influence is encroaching on other areas that perhaps he'd be better leave to others.

I can empathise with Gardner. I love a rags to riches story. And if the others futher upfield were doing their job, we could perhaps let his deficiencies go as he tries to learn his craft. We clearly cannot afford that luxury right now. He does nothing better than either Young or Trengove, and a few things worse.

Our mdifield can't get a free pass either. They don't hurt teams, Smith and Bont excluded, but Dunkley, Macrae, Lipinski and anyone else who does minutes in there... they just don't have weapons, and Bont right now has had 3 games (2019 final included) where he was just ineffectual. That's a form slump based on his career output, and our midfield can't handle that. He's a league top tier player and he's not fired an effective shot for 3 games in a row.

[Danjul]

St Kilda rarely missed a foot pass under 40 metres. The receiver was usually 25 metres clear of their opponent. The incoming ball was on a low trajectory so a mark was assured. The Dogs kicking was appalling, their foot passes were impossible to mark. After diving awkwardly for the ball the receiver was out of the play.

Field kicking was bad, there was obviously a competition to see who could hit the roof first.

No wonder we cannot get to 10 goals in a game.

[Rocket Science]

That's fair, but are the players the problem or the fact that ALL of them are playing.

I admit to being happy that we picked forwards to play forward, but those 3 in particular are just going to be cutting each others grass all game - they are mid-sized, marking forwards. The best we have of that type (Dickson) didn't play.

I'm leaving the Gardiner one. I just don't think he is the problem and is such an easy target...he's played like 5 games and needs to be supported, not criticised. I would prefer Young (either version of Young tbh) but whatever.

Aye, there isn't a forward line in the league that can carry all of Lloyd, Dale and Gowers. On top of Wallis no less but at least the latter brings other elements. Did the coach really need this demonstrated in a game for points rather than an intra-club? Then again name one small-to-mid forward on our list who excels at defensive pressure.

Agreed Gardner's the least of our issues right now but he's an easy target because he's manifestly unready for the level, granted that's only amplified by the flaky unit around him, but he doesn't possess the judgement or the urgency we need in a key backman. Or the physicality. Or the skill-level with ball in hand. In fact I'd love someone more knowledgable to state his strengths besides being tall and rangy. Truly, what's the coach looking at with Gardner that's earning his faith?

What's more, as you touched on, that the MC feels getting games into Gardner rather than Lewis Young - who could be anything if managed with any degree of consistency - defies belief.

TBH though, none of this irks me as nearly much as them handing Gowers another game while expecting anything other than what we got tonight.

[josie]

He got just one hit out Josie. He's not much of a support ruck man and Saints fans will confirm that

Fair enough. Geez we had a lot of poor players tonight. What has happened to our (was) much vaunted midfield?

[Sedat]

He got just one hit out Josie. He's not much of a support ruck man and Saints fans will confirm that

Interested to hear your thoughts on how we become more competitive at ruck stoppages. We've given 12 months to English playing 80% game time in ruck with precious little support - it absolutely cost us 4-5 close games last year and his stoppage work has not looked like it has improved at all so far in 2020 (from an already unacceptable level in 2019). I feel like we are destroying him as a viable ruck project as he consistently gets mauled and is not competitive. He was smashed again tonight by a very good ruck combination, and his confidence is so shot he is struggling to contribute around the ground either linking up with the mids a-la Dean Cox or as a key forward target.

I think English has been horribly mis-treated by Bevo and the MC.

[jeemak]

Interested to hear your thoughts on how we become more competitive at ruck stoppages. We've given 12 months to English playing 80% game time in ruck with precious little support - it absolutely cost us 4-5 close games last year and his stoppage work has not looked like it has improved at all so far in 2020 (from an already unacceptable level in 2019). I feel like we are destroying him as a viable ruck project as he consistently gets mauled and is not competitive. He was smashed again tonight by a very good ruck combination, and his confidence is so shot he is struggling to contribute around the ground either linking up with the mids a-la Dean Cox or as a key forward target.

I think English has been horribly mis-treated by Bevo and the MC.

Cost us four to five close games? Not sure about that mate.

[Sedat]

Cost us four to five close games? Not sure about that mate.

Collingwood x2, Gold Coast, North Melbourne. There were other less close games but those 4 had opposition ruckman as BOG or in the votes at least.

[GVGjr]

I agree Sedat, we have invested a lot of effort in to developing English knowing that it was always going to take a lot of time
While I acknowledge that philosophies of the game is changing in regards to the ruck position, we needed to support English more last year and then again this year. His physical transformation is coming along well but he has stalled a bit in terms of his progress with the ruck craft. His timing for leaping into contests isn't quite there and he should be more of a force around the ground with his marking especially in the back half.
His confidence also can't be that high because he's an intelligent guy who would be hurting with some of the beatings he is taking.

Danjul often talks about him as a forward and there might be some merit in giving him some more time forward
The most viable option of playing Trengove and him spending 40% of the game in the ruck is an unlikely option so we either drop English for a few games and play Sweet or play both of the boys and see if that helps but I suspect it won't.

I still rate English but he needs a lot more specialized coaching and he needs some support in games. I'm note sure that will be forthcoming though. I think Comrade once rated him the 2nd most important player on our list after Bont so we do need to work out a way of getting him some genuine support