Always Right Match Committee - Round 3 Vs GWS 2020

[Happy Days]

Gross.

What's grimmer; the ins themselves or that it would represent a clear improvement to the side?

[Danjul]

I really don't get where the enthusiasm for English as a key forward is coming from. I just don't see many attributes that scream champion forward. Sure he seems like he may be able to play their competently, potentially have the odd good game, but to me he is a ruckman that can go forward, not the other way around. Whether he will become the ruckman we all hope he can be remains to be seen.

.....

I am frustrated by an apparent lack of progress in Tim's ruck craft like most of us. It feels like he is big enough now to stop being pushed around and his height and leap should't see him losing as many taps. I wonder if he needs a different specialist coach (I assume he has been working with King?). Ruck work really should be something that can be coached and learned, I don't think it all just comes down to natural ability.

If Tim was performing better in the ruck would we even be talking about this?

English is tall - but he doesn’t have the build of a ruckman. His upper body is 10 kg too light. He should never have been given 3 years of being beaten up in the ruck. Wouldn’t be suitable in the role until 2023 at the earliest. And I suspect that we will still be talking about it then.

I have never seen a non-ruckman coached into a ruckman. They are born that way and that’s why they are rare. That’s why they stand out early. That’s why you can count the best ruckmen on one hand. If all talls could learn to be a ruckman they would be ‘a dime a dozen‘ and not worth their weight in gold.

[comrade]

What's grimmer; the ins themselves or that it would represent a clear improvement to the side?

I honestly don't know.

[jeemak]

I really don't get where the enthusiasm for English as a key forward is coming from. I just don't see many attributes that scream champion forward. Sure he seems like he may be able to play their competently, potentially have the odd good game, but to me he is a ruckman that can go forward, not the other way around. Whether he will become the ruckman we all hope he can be remains to be seen.

As for him being a key forward:
- Marking - he has decent hands but I don't recall too many contested marks where a big man is putting spoiling pressure on him. He tends to be ok when he can run and jump at the ball but those opportunities are somewhat rare inside 50. Maybe he can do it but I haven't seen it and have my doubts.

- Kicking - fine, no glaring issue there.

- Speed and agility - does he have decent speed and agility for his size and for a ruckman - yes. How about when compared to the best key forwards? Not in my view. As a key forward he appears a bit slow and cumbersome for mine when the ball hits the ground.

- Player comparison - what successful tall (200cm or thereabouts and up) forwards is he comparable to? Not as quick or agile as the King brothers or Daniher or probably even Ben Brown. I'm thinking somewhat similar to Mason Cox - quicker and more agile but obviously not as tall. Of course I could be wrong but Cox is about the level I can imagine English reaching as a key forward and he is no champion.

I am frustrated by an apparent lack of progress in Tim's ruck craft like most of us. It feels like he is big enough now to stop being pushed around and his height and leap should't see him losing as many taps. I wonder if he needs a different specialist coach (I assume he has been working with King?). Ruck work really should be something that can be coached and learned, I don't think it all just comes down to natural ability.

If Tim was performing better in the ruck would we even be talking about this?

Good post. I think you're underselling his agility and pace of the mark, though by and large you're on the money.

There's not a lot of rucks who don't need a substantial amount of coaching to become what they are once they mature. Tim's no different and he will get better.

[Axe Man]

I have never seen a non-ruckman coached into a ruckman. They are born that way and that’s why they are rare. That’s why they stand out early. That’s why you can count the best ruckmen on one hand. If all talls could learn to be a ruckman they would be ‘a dime a dozen‘ and not worth their weight in gold.

Ruckmen are a dime a dozen. Sure not the top few in the league, Grundy, Gawn, Goldstien, etc. But competent ruckmen aren't difficult to find and they can't all have been born with this mythical ruck ability. Why even bother with ruck coaches if you can't possibly teach someone to ruck and they are "born that way"?

Pittonet from Carlton has received some praise for his game against Gawn on the weekend. He is a classic eker ruckman managing a handful of games for Hawthorn over many years before being traded to Carlton for a packet of chips. Surely he is not naturally blessed with some innate ruck ability? I reckon he's probably just a big bloke that has been toiling away for years and has potentially developed to a level where he can be competitive at AFL level.

At the moment all we need Tim to be is competitive, he doesn't have to be the second coming of Polly Farmer or Dean Cox.

[jeemak]

There's a good reason not many rucks are drafted as high/ higher as/ than Tim was. It's because they can take a lot of time to develop, and players who turn out to be competent ruckmen come from a range of backgrounds.

[Axe Man]

Dogs' midfield on notice as Bevo flags more changes

The Bulldogs look set to make more changes for Friday night's grudge match against GWS

TOBY McLean and Tom Liberatore are firmly in the mix to return as the Western Bulldogs prepare for Friday night's grudge match against Greater Western Sydney.

Coach Luke Beveridge made five changes for round two after the long layoff, but there could be more this week.

"He (Liberatore) had a really good session on Saturday and he's come through that with flying colours," Beveridge said.

"That was the last one he needed to tick off and so we'll definitely consider him for Friday night."

he Giants clash looms as a huge test for the winless Dogs after they were outmuscled in last year's elimination final by 58 points.

With Jeremy Cameron, Jeremy Finlayson, Toby Greene and Harry Himmelberg to battle in the air, Beveridge named Zaine Cordy as another potential inclusion.

Jackson Trengove could also be an option to play as a defender and provide a chop out for Tim English who was again beaten comfortably in the hitouts.

Beveridge highlighted a number of areas that needed addressing in the aftermath of the round two loss to St Kilda, most notably the midfield.

The Bulldogs have conceded the second-most points of any team this year and have scored just 83 points combined across the two games.

"There's some quite blatant things that we've identified that we can fix," Beveridge said.

"Some of those are just fundamental skill errors and decisions.

"Our midfield and our backline, our counterattack and our stuff out of stoppages hasn't been anywhere near as productive as what it was last year.

"You have to re-establish yourself all over again and that maturity as a football team isn't quite there yet."

Despite the huge drop in scoring from last year, Beveridge won't be shaking up the forward line.

Aaron Naughton will stay in his role as a key forward and it looks unlikely that Josh Schache will break back into the side after kicking 24 goals last year.

"He's a listed player who's still got a promising future but he's not in the team at the moment," Beveridge said of Schache.

The Bulldogs will be without defenders Easton Wood and Taylor Duryea again who are both a month off the pace with quad injuries.

The two trained away from the main group in parts on Wednesday, alongside Hayden Crozier and Buku Khamis who are managing their loads.

Meanwhile, Mission Foods Australia extended its partnership with the Bulldogs until the end of 2023.

[bornadog]

Press Conference here

[The Adelaide Connection]

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/v...jYIjsleRHJt9qc

Just listening to the Bevo presser:

He was particularly cagey at any selection questions. In fact, he was pretty defensive and cut off the reporter at one point and said: "You gonna pick the team for me?"

It was said in a lighthearted way, but it definitely seemed to hit a nerve.

Another question:

"Where's Josh Schache at?"

"Ahhh...he's a listed player with a promising future, but he is not in the team at the moment."

Honestly, did Bevo think there weren't going to be selection questions? It would be a serious worry if he didn't. Maybe someone needs to flick him a link to this thread.

13 Minute mark:
"Are you tempted to put him Naughton back?"

"Nah, not really...the makeup of the forward line looks right..."

14:50 onwards:
"Tim English...Do you bring someone in to support him?"

"Smidgen off having a good game, dropped some marks etc... will make a call around Sweet and Trengove this afternoon..."

[Jeanette54]

Just an idea from left field.

Lachie Hunter is a club suspension, not AFL ?

Given we were crying out for someone like him on Sunday, could the club offer him "early release" ?

Sure the suspension was punishing the player, but do the fans, members and club have to suffer the punishment with him ?

[comrade]

The makeup of the forward line looks right? Ok, Bevo.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Tim DID play ruck as a junior. It's not like we just turned him into one. He's completely lacking in confidence at the moment. He's been beaten up too many times and his poor performances are snowballing and it's having a compunding affect on his confidence. Normally i would say he needs a spell in the two's to regain some form and thus some confidence. Unfortuantely we don't have that luxury at the moment. I think playing him forward, then rucking him in tandem with Trengove would help. Give him some time as the second ruck when the opposing ruckman is a little tired. Who knows. Can't go any worse can it?

My changes:

IN: Trengove, Cordy, Weightman, Libba
OUT: Gowers, Gardner, Dale, Lloyd

Trengove rucks, English goes forward, Weightman comes in for Dale and Libba comes in at the expense of Lloyd.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Just an idea from left field.

Lachie Hunter is a club suspension, not AFL ?

Given we were crying out for someone like him on Sunday, could the club offer him "early release" ?

Sure the suspension was punishing the player, but do the fans, members and club have to suffer the punishment with him ?

It would not be a good look and would not be worth the absolute trashing of our clubs brand that would come with it. Sponsors would drop off for something like that.

Also, can you imagine Damien Barrett? He'd almost start a new podcast dedicated to it.

[bornadog]

Just an idea from left field.

Lachie Hunter is a club suspension, not AFL ?

Given we were crying out for someone like him on Sunday, could the club offer him "early release" ?

Sure the suspension was punishing the player, but do the fans, members and club have to suffer the punishment with him ?

I thought of the same thing. Stuff it, we need to win games and one of our best players is out.

[jeemak]

Just an idea from left field.

Lachie Hunter is a club suspension, not AFL ?

Given we were crying out for someone like him on Sunday, could the club offer him "early release" ?

Sure the suspension was punishing the player, but do the fans, members and club have to suffer the punishment with him ?

I'm not sure that's what we'd want to be doing...…..because next time if it wasn't Hunter and it was someone else in the side then there'd be an unacceptable level of rules for some and rules for others and it would ruin the playing group culture.