Always Right Match Committee - Round 3 Vs GWS 2020

[azabob]

Outs



JJ and Lloyd get another chance due to runs on the board. But JJ's acceptance of the tag is a real worry.

This has been a major worry since round 1 2017.

He needs to be dropped. But if he's dropped he won't come back in 2020.

[comrade]

This has been a major worry since round 1 2017.

He needs to be dropped. But if he's dropped he won't come back in 2020.

On the plus side, it gives him plenty of time to go shopping and take photos for IG.

[Ozza]

This has been a major worry since round 1 2017.

He needs to be dropped. But if he's dropped he won't come back in 2020.

We need JJ to be so much better. I don't think it is fair to class of all his last 3 and a bit years like that though - he has had plenty of good games spliced in there and came second or third in a B&F IIRC. And him being tagged should allow us to take advantage elsewhere, but I would assume it really brings his team mates down when he doesn't try and fight through the tag.

On another note, interested in poster's views on Caleb Daniel as a defender. In some ways, he has played his best footy at half back, but the team has not been a winning one with him there. I think Caleb needs to play forward, be the 7th mid when we do have the extra and work up and back as a half forward and even add some 'crumbing' that our forward line seriously lacks.

We won't get the sort of numbers from Caleb, but it might be whats best for the team, and he isn't much of a pure defender. With JJ, Suckling and Daniel....we have 3 of 6 that are playing back that don't defend one on one and are more attacking types. Arguably Bailey Williams has that in his game also.

[soupman]

I would run with the following (and have tried to keep it somewhere in the realm of actually possible):
Defensive group needs to be able to take Cameron, Himmelberg, Greene, Finlayson, Daniels and Lloyd.
Keath and Trengove take the big two. Finlayson and Lloyd are kind of talls but i wouldn't bring a tall in to cover them necessarily. Crozier, Williams, JJ all keep their spots, although JJ really needs to pull his finger out. Suckling I am meh on, Daniel is our main distributor there now so he is kind of redundant. Can't wait until we can bring Duryea in for him. At least Duryea has a bit of mongrel and does the defensive stuff fairly well. I'd probably bring Young in for Suckling just so we have someone else good aerially, you can decide if I mean Lachie or Lewis, either works. We got killed against St.Kilda with our inability to impact aerial contests. We couldn't mark it and we couldn't spoil it away, which meant their crumbers like Butler had a great time.

I'd probably only pick max 5 pure forwards. Naughton and Bruce are both must haves. I think we can only afford max two pure forwards who offers nothing other than a decent mark, so only two of Wallis, Gowers, Dale, Lloyd, Schache get picked. I'd go with Wallis and Schache. The former because he is tough, actually takes his chances unlike others (Dale and Lloyd on the weekend) and his pressure is ok. Schache gets in because I think he has some good attributes, is very clean with the ball both with his passing and his shots at goal, and i think unlike Lloyd and Dale he can push a ouch higher up the ground and offer a link up option. His "softness" doesn't matter because it isn't like the other blokes offer anything there. I don't know if Dickson is even alive but if he is he probably gets in ahead of Schache. My last forward spot goes to whoever can offer run and/or pressure. Cavarra, West, Vadermeer and Weightman are the candidates there. Don't care who, lets just keep Laitham he was decent.

Mids get the rest of the squad, which is 10 spots. We play one ruck. I prefer the idea of having Trengove play main ruck and allowing English to come up against a tired opponent or the second ruck and really roam the ground the rest of the game, but 16 minute quarters makes a two ruck strategy a bad strategy. Plus I actually want the steel Trengove brings to the backline and as if Beveridge ever concedes that English isn't enough. Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Smith are all undroppable. I want at least one pure winger, and 2 forward/mids. Richards was decent in the winger role so he can keep it, Lipinski gets one of the forward mid roles. Jong stays in too, he was decent and at least brings aggression both physically and with the ball. So I'm left with one forward mid role to fill and another mid. Main candidates are:
-Liberatore, who brings mongrel but is a pure mid and ranks 5th in the mid rotation.
-Suckling, who is meh but atleast has a weapon and can fill roles everywhere mediocrely.
-Hayes, who is the closest thing we have to Hunter as a hard running link up option and could maybe get a role on Whitfield or Kelly, although we probably match up Richards on them like we did with Hill.
-West, offers pressure and movement.
-Mclean, Should be a walk up start, but two years of mediocre at best performances means he is thoroughly undeserving.
-Roarke Smith, has endeavour and can link up alright. Is injured but would just about make it if he was fit.


I'd probably go with Liberatore and West. I don't really rate Libba but feel we are definitely bringing him in anyway and he does offer some intensity and hopefully helps the rest of our midfield grow a backbone, especially against a GWS that will be very aggressive. West helps with forward pressure and movement off the ball.

Otherwise unlike the game on the weekend Macrae will attend atleast one centre bounce prior to halftime, nobody outside of the starting three mids plus Macrae and Libba is allowed in the centre square if we can help it. There isn't a heap of defensive depth there but i think the forward especially are much more likely to apply pressure than yesterday and there is more pace to help the lineup feel more dynamic and mobile.

So something like
Crozier, Trengove, Young
Williams, Keath, JJ
Richards, Bont, Jong
Schache, Naughton, Lipinski
Wallis, Bruce, Vandermeer
English, Smith, Dunkley

Daniel, West, Macrae, Liberatore

Changes:
Out: Suckling, Lloyd, Gowers, Dale, Gardner
In: Either Young, Trengove, Schache, West, Liberatore,

[The bulldog tragician]

It feels like this is one of the most important matches we've played post-2016. We know GWS will target us physically. We know that the footy world is now condemning us left right and centre and key players including our captain are under the microscope. A meek performance would be totally unacceptable. Over to you Boys, Men and Bevo Our Saviour.

[Happy Days]

I would run with the following (and have tried to keep it somewhere in the realm of actually possible):
Defensive group needs to be able to take Cameron, Himmelberg, Greene, Finlayson, Daniels and Lloyd.
Keath and Trengove take the big two. Finlayson and Lloyd are kind of talls but i wouldn't bring a tall in to cover them necessarily. Crozier, Williams, JJ all keep their spots, although JJ really needs to pull his finger out. Suckling I am meh on, Daniel is our main distributor there now so he is kind of redundant. Can't wait until we can bring Duryea in for him. At least Duryea has a bit of mongrel and does the defensive stuff fairly well. I'd probably bring Young in for Suckling just so we have someone else good aerially, you can decide if I mean Lachie or Lewis, either works. We got killed against St.Kilda with our inability to impact aerial contests. We couldn't mark it and we couldn't spoil it away, which meant their crumbers like Butler had a great time.

I'd probably only pick max 5 pure forwards. Naughton and Bruce are both must haves. I think we can only afford max two pure forwards who offers nothing other than a decent mark, so only two of Wallis, Gowers, Dale, Lloyd, Schache get picked. I'd go with Wallis and Schache. The former because he is tough, actually takes his chances unlike others (Dale and Lloyd on the weekend) and his pressure is ok. Schache gets in because I think he has some good attributes, is very clean with the ball both with his passing and his shots at goal, and i think unlike Lloyd and Dale he can push a ouch higher up the ground and offer a link up option. His "softness" doesn't matter because it isn't like the other blokes offer anything there. I don't know if Dickson is even alive but if he is he probably gets in ahead of Schache. My last forward spot goes to whoever can offer run and/or pressure. Cavarra, West, Vadermeer and Weightman are the candidates there. Don't care who, lets just keep Laitham he was decent.

Mids get the rest of the squad, which is 10 spots. We play one ruck. I prefer the idea of having Trengove play main ruck and allowing English to come up against a tired opponent or the second ruck and really roam the ground the rest of the game, but 16 minute quarters makes a two ruck strategy a bad strategy. Plus I actually want the steel Trengove brings to the backline and as if Beveridge ever concedes that English isn't enough. Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Smith are all undroppable. I want at least one pure winger, and 2 forward/mids. Richards was decent in the winger role so he can keep it, Lipinski gets one of the forward mid roles. Jong stays in too, he was decent and at least brings aggression both physically and with the ball. So I'm left with one forward mid role to fill and another mid. Main candidates are:
-Liberatore, who brings mongrel but is a pure mid and ranks 5th in the mid rotation.
-Suckling, who is meh but atleast has a weapon and can fill roles everywhere mediocrely.
-Hayes, who is the closest thing we have to Hunter as a hard running link up option and could maybe get a role on Whitfield or Kelly, although we probably match up Richards on them like we did with Hill.
-West, offers pressure and movement.
-Mclean, Should be a walk up start, but two years of mediocre at best performances means he is thoroughly undeserving.
-Roarke Smith, has endeavour and can link up alright. Is injured but would just about make it if he was fit.


I'd probably go with Liberatore and West. I don't really rate Libba but feel we are definitely bringing him in anyway and he does offer some intensity and hopefully helps the rest of our midfield grow a backbone, especially against a GWS that will be very aggressive. West helps with forward pressure and movement off the ball.

Otherwise unlike the game on the weekend Macrae will attend atleast one centre bounce prior to halftime, nobody outside of the starting three mids plus Macrae and Libba is allowed in the centre square if we can help it. There isn't a heap of defensive depth there but i think the forward especially are much more likely to apply pressure than yesterday and there is more pace to help the lineup feel more dynamic and mobile.

So something like
Crozier, Trengove, Young
Williams, Keath, JJ
Richards, Bont, Jong
Schache, Naughton, Lipinski
Wallis, Bruce, Vandermeer
English, Smith, Dunkley

Daniel, West, Macrae, Liberatore

Changes:
Out: Suckling, Lloyd, Gowers, Dale, Gardner
In: Either Young, Trengove, Schache, West, Liberatore,

Cool and thoughtful post. I don't want to drop Suckling and find it hard to be too critical of the back 6 considering the ball was coming in hot and they were essentially playing one short. But I concur that the forwards need pay for a really piss poor performance that made the backline's job all that much harder.

I (think) I suggested Libba as a pressure forward elsewhere but West is a way better idea. Lloyd actually bothers to chase sometimes and is still the most dangerous around goals of the three so I would offer him a reprieve. Libba still comes in and probably plays a bit forward but not as a full time role. I'm cool if Gowers and Dale never play again.

Re either Young, I would like to see us play Lewis for Gardner; if we're trying to develop a defender let's try with the player who has actually shown he can defend. Lachie doesn't really have the size to play tall and most of our mid-sized defenders were actually pretty good. He's not as good a kick as Suckling so I wouldn't make a change off no exposed good form.

We need to play Trengove. I would drop Bruce for him, who looked slow and to be honest overweight, but that obviously won't happen so despite my wants (because who cares what I want) he can play instead of Young. As long as Gardner is out.

So:

In: Trengove, West, Libba

Out: Gardner, Gowers, Dale

I want to bring Schache in but he doesn't chase either.

[GVGjr]

I think West is still 2 weeks away. He's still on a modified schedule

[soupman]

It feels like this is one of the most important matches we've played post-2016. We know GWS will target us physically. We know that the footy world is now condemning us left right and centre and key players including our captain are under the microscope. A meek performance would be totally unacceptable. Over to you Boys, Men and Bevo Our Saviour.

We said this about the Collingwood game though, and how important it was to show that we are intense and tough and can't be outworked. The Saints game was our second go at that. I don't disagree with your statement, as if we fail to turn up for this one we are proper stuffed, but i wonder at what point we stop saying the next one is the most important and start saying the most important one was actually back in round 2.

[soupman]

Cool and thoughtful post. I don't want to drop Suckling and find it hard to be too critical of the back 6 considering the ball was coming in hot and they were essentially playing one short.

Suckling is probably my next in, he just goes missing so much and if he isn't finding the ball on the outside he really isn't doing anything for us. I actually think he tries hard and cops some unwarranted heat about his softness but I also don't think he adds any steel to us.

Lloyd actually bothers to chase sometimes and is still the most dangerous around goals of the three so I would offer him a reprieve.

I'm just annoyed that in 3 games he has basically not appeared and when he is missing shots from 35 out straight in front i really start to wonder what he brings to the side.

Re either Young, I would like to see us play Lewis for Gardner; if we're trying to develop a defender let's try with the player who has actually shown he can defend. Lachie doesn't really have the size to play tall and most of our mid-sized defenders were actually pretty good. He's not as good a kick as Suckling so I wouldn't make a change off no exposed good form.

Yeah I cannot believe that we have decided to pump games into a prospective key defender irresepective of form and have gone with the one that's shown no AFL attributes. Lewis Young is at a bare minimum Gardners equal in any category (and far better in most) aside from maybe training performance apparently.

I really like Lachie as a prospect and i think you could get away with him in the third tall role (on say Finlayson or Lloyd who aren't overly physical or strong overhead threats and in Finlaysons case are primarily good movers with a nice kick). He is one who I think if you pumped games into you would see some reward (or be better equipped to make the call to cut him).

[Happy Days]

I really like Lachie as a prospect and i think you could get away with him in the third tall role (on say Finlayson or Lloyd who aren't overly physical or strong overhead threats and in Finlaysons case are primarily good movers with a nice kick). He is one who I think if you pumped games into you would see some reward (or be better equipped to make the call to cut him).

Oh same. He's clearly got something to him, I just don't think that either he's a better player than Suckling right now nor that the season is a lost cause to the point that he should be playing ahead of Suckling, who is really the only option for him to play ahead of.

Also, if for no other reason we should look for reasons to keep him around to get his brother to come over at the end of next year

[Ozza]

I too am concerned about Macrae. Has continued on this year from where he left off last year.

I'm sorry, just checking that there some words or letters missing from this post? Did you mean that he 'hasn't' continued on this year where he left off last year? Because he was All Australian last year, so I definitely don't think he's picked up where he left off!!

[Happy Days]

I'm just annoyed that in 3 games he has basically not appeared and when he is missing shots from 35 out straight in front i really start to wonder what he brings to the side.
.

I heard an anecdote about Lloyd that he's continued to pay out of his own pocket for grappling classes that Richmond began undertaking in order to improve their tackling while he's been at our club, meaning that he's going out of his way to do even further physical training on top of the club's requirements to work at an aspect of his game that we could badly use.

I think he needs to lift but it's not for a lack of effort.

[Mofra]

Oh same. He's clearly got something to him, I just don't think that either he's a better player than Suckling right now nor that the season is a lost cause to the point that he should be playing ahead of Suckling, who is really the only option for him to play ahead of.

Also, if for no other reason we should look for reasons to keep him around to get his brother to come over at the end of next year

Right now he's a better defender than Suckling (especially in the air) and we need all the aerial cover wew can get, especially with Wood out

[Vred]

I would run with the following (and have tried to keep it somewhere in the realm of actually possible):
Defensive group needs to be able to take Cameron, Himmelberg, Greene, Finlayson, Daniels and Lloyd.
Keath and Trengove take the big two. Finlayson and Lloyd are kind of talls but i wouldn't bring a tall in to cover them necessarily. Crozier, Williams, JJ all keep their spots, although JJ really needs to pull his finger out. Suckling I am meh on, Daniel is our main distributor there now so he is kind of redundant. Can't wait until we can bring Duryea in for him. At least Duryea has a bit of mongrel and does the defensive stuff fairly well. I'd probably bring Young in for Suckling just so we have someone else good aerially, you can decide if I mean Lachie or Lewis, either works. We got killed against St.Kilda with our inability to impact aerial contests. We couldn't mark it and we couldn't spoil it away, which meant their crumbers like Butler had a great time.

I'd probably only pick max 5 pure forwards. Naughton and Bruce are both must haves. I think we can only afford max two pure forwards who offers nothing other than a decent mark, so only two of Wallis, Gowers, Dale, Lloyd, Schache get picked. I'd go with Wallis and Schache. The former because he is tough, actually takes his chances unlike others (Dale and Lloyd on the weekend) and his pressure is ok. Schache gets in because I think he has some good attributes, is very clean with the ball both with his passing and his shots at goal, and i think unlike Lloyd and Dale he can push a ouch higher up the ground and offer a link up option. His "softness" doesn't matter because it isn't like the other blokes offer anything there. I don't know if Dickson is even alive but if he is he probably gets in ahead of Schache. My last forward spot goes to whoever can offer run and/or pressure. Cavarra, West, Vadermeer and Weightman are the candidates there. Don't care who, lets just keep Laitham he was decent.

Mids get the rest of the squad, which is 10 spots. We play one ruck. I prefer the idea of having Trengove play main ruck and allowing English to come up against a tired opponent or the second ruck and really roam the ground the rest of the game, but 16 minute quarters makes a two ruck strategy a bad strategy. Plus I actually want the steel Trengove brings to the backline and as if Beveridge ever concedes that English isn't enough. Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Smith are all undroppable. I want at least one pure winger, and 2 forward/mids. Richards was decent in the winger role so he can keep it, Lipinski gets one of the forward mid roles. Jong stays in too, he was decent and at least brings aggression both physically and with the ball. So I'm left with one forward mid role to fill and another mid. Main candidates are:
-Liberatore, who brings mongrel but is a pure mid and ranks 5th in the mid rotation.
-Suckling, who is meh but atleast has a weapon and can fill roles everywhere mediocrely.
-Hayes, who is the closest thing we have to Hunter as a hard running link up option and could maybe get a role on Whitfield or Kelly, although we probably match up Richards on them like we did with Hill.
-West, offers pressure and movement.
-Mclean, Should be a walk up start, but two years of mediocre at best performances means he is thoroughly undeserving.
-Roarke Smith, has endeavour and can link up alright. Is injured but would just about make it if he was fit.


I'd probably go with Liberatore and West. I don't really rate Libba but feel we are definitely bringing him in anyway and he does offer some intensity and hopefully helps the rest of our midfield grow a backbone, especially against a GWS that will be very aggressive. West helps with forward pressure and movement off the ball.

Otherwise unlike the game on the weekend Macrae will attend atleast one centre bounce prior to halftime, nobody outside of the starting three mids plus Macrae and Libba is allowed in the centre square if we can help it. There isn't a heap of defensive depth there but i think the forward especially are much more likely to apply pressure than yesterday and there is more pace to help the lineup feel more dynamic and mobile.

So something like
Crozier, Trengove, Young
Williams, Keath, JJ
Richards, Bont, Jong
Schache, Naughton, Lipinski
Wallis, Bruce, Vandermeer
English, Smith, Dunkley

Daniel, West, Macrae, Liberatore

Changes:
Out: Suckling, Lloyd, Gowers, Dale, Gardner
In: Either Young, Trengove, Schache, West, Liberatore,

I'm 100% fine by this, all day, every day.

[Sedat]

I don't get the Libba hesitancy. Take away his crap 2017 and he has barely ever let us down when he plays. Prior to his knee injury last year he was in our best handful of players. His hands are elite in tight and he is a natural ball winner. Our midfield depth is nowhere near as deep as we think, and we surely need a proven extractor in there when we generally concede the hitout more often than not.

If he's 100% right to go, let him rip. He certainly won't take a backward step when GWS unleash the heavy artillery.